What would you consider free range? I've seen a few amish farms around here where a couple of pigs share a pasture (I'm talking multiple acres) with a couple of horses and cows. I don't think ranging without some kind of fencing is safe for the animal of fair to neighbors, people driving down the road etc. Everyone's thoughts?
There may be fencing and you can't see it. Most of.them use temporary braided single strand fencing. It's easy to put up and remove. The spacing between "posts" can be pretty far. I see it a lot and for the most part is effective. It allows the farmers to quickly create temporary grazing areas or partition off an area.
Anon 1:13 again. I agree with you that it is manipulative marketing however i don't think the general public actually thinks about it, they just see that label.
Free range can still be contained in a fence. Haven't you seen chickens raised in large fenced areas with mobile coops? That's still free range. Pigs raised in large pastures are still free range.
What else would you call them? That's why you need to ask your farmer what exactly "free range", "pastured", "grass fed", "natural", "cage free", etc MEAN. They mean different things to different people.
They're free to range around their pasture. How is it really different if a pig has a 5 acre pasture vs. no fence at all? The pig is getting plenty of space, and has plenty of room to roam around. Eggs from chickens raised in a very large fenced area (a quarter acre, half acre) are no better than eggs from chickens raised totally without fences. The chickens still get to eat grass, bugs, get fresh air, etc.
And before I made that comment, I didn't realize you were specifically talking about JW. Hers barely have any room (especially any raised in the barn stall).
Labels don't really mean anything. They're just words and are very subjective.
In my opinion, free range is poor farming. Free range means predators have access to the livestock at any time. The animals are not protected. They can wander off at will, never to be found again. I keep a large flock of laying hens for market eggs, 2 goats, a few pigs. They all have ample fresh pasture to roam, clean bare ground/straw & hay for a few months in the winter. If they were "free range," I'd have no livestock by this Saturday. Maybe it's different out west where there's far more room to roam, I don't have experience farming in that part of the country. Here in the eastern half of the US, "free range" means you're losing stock hand over fist. I know of a large local farm that keeps free range meat and egg birds. Press him, and he admits to losing several birds per day. PER DAY. Yet at the farmers markets, customers will swarm to his booth for the $7/dozen "free range" eggs before they look elsewhere for responsibly raised pastured eggs. That don't require an insanely high price tag because their hens aren't getting picked off by predators on a regular basis. Free range my ass.
Re: Free range chickens. "The US Department of Agriculture only requires that they be given continuous outdoor access. In reality what that usually means is that the hens live in large barns housing thousands of chickens with just one or several open doors. USDA rules allow the outdoor area to be fenced and/or covered with netting-like material. The outdoor space, therefore, could be just a “screened-in porch with cement, dirt or a modicum of grass,” according to the Cornucopia Institute, a nonprofit group focused on sustainable agriculture. And often, the birds don’t actually use the outdoor access they have. In other words, “free-range” eggs mostly still come from large commercial egg production facilities."
That's one reason I keep chickens. Mine are about as free range as you're going to get, as they have a fenced acre to roam on with plenty of cover and a secure coop for night. If they were truly just running around unprotected, I'd have no chickens. Even in my edge-of-suburbia we have roaming dogs, coyotes, raccoons and plenty of hawks.
The bigger the operation, I think, the harder it is to replicate something like this. I do know of an operation just south of me though that does a pretty good job considering their amount of birds. They are on pasture, and they do use very tall overhead netting to protect from predators. They have large coops for night. Oh, I'm in the West.
I agree that the free range label means next to nothing. Know your farmer.
I let my chickens out to roam freely (no fence) all the time and never have predator issues. The closest I've come to losing one was when it went near the road. Usually what I do now is keep them in for the morning hours and let them out in the afternoon, but probably a third of my flock can escape over the fence if they want (and they usually want).
I live on a fairly busy road, and am surrounded on 3 sides by farm fields/hedgerow. I have foxes, hawks, etc. Maybe I've been lucky (for years now), but I've only had 1 chicken killed at night. And that one was my fault, because I forgot to lock the coop.
Free range does not automatically mean death sentence. It depends on your area, and probably my other animals help deter predators some too.
Obviously if I was losing chickens I'd change things, but why fix what isn't broken?
Well first of all the terms free range and organic have been rendered meaningless by gov't agencies cowtowing to big ag trying to gain market share in a niche. Having access to a little dirt lot outside of a building most won't ever leave isn't free range.
With that said, the term can get nitpicked as well. How many farms would be free range using the definition of "zero borders"? Probably not many. Even then, if I have open range but instead a pack of LGD's that keep the animals contained, are they no longer free range too? If I run a ridiculously low stocking density that provides more pasture than they could possibly need, are they not free range simply because my neighbor five miles away wouldn't appreciate my animals rooting through their front yard? Meh.
Personally I'd stay away from the term to avoid being associated with the factory farms jumping the bandwagon; avoiding the sneers from people nitpicking 100 acres just because there's a perimeter fence a distant second. I think "pastured" covers it just fine....but I'm sure someone will take offense. They are free to shop elsewhere.
What would you consider free range? I've seen a few amish farms around here where a couple of pigs share a pasture (I'm talking multiple acres) with a couple of horses and cows. I don't think ranging without some kind of fencing is safe for the animal of fair to neighbors, people driving down the road etc. Everyone's thoughts?
ReplyDeleteFree range is no fencing. Free range chickens aren't contained.
DeleteThere may be fencing and you can't see it. Most of.them use temporary braided single strand fencing. It's easy to put up and remove. The spacing between "posts" can be pretty far. I see it a lot and for the most part is effective. It allows the farmers to quickly create temporary grazing areas or partition off an area.
DeleteAnon 1:13 again. I agree with you that it is manipulative marketing however i don't think the general public actually thinks about it, they just see that label.
ReplyDeleteFree range can still be contained in a fence. Haven't you seen chickens raised in large fenced areas with mobile coops? That's still free range. Pigs raised in large pastures are still free range.
ReplyDeleteWhat else would you call them? That's why you need to ask your farmer what exactly "free range", "pastured", "grass fed", "natural", "cage free", etc MEAN. They mean different things to different people.
I disagree. I wouldn't call "pastured" or "wood lot" kept pigs free range. They aren't free to range, They are enclosed with electric fencing.
DeleteThey're free to range around their pasture. How is it really different if a pig has a 5 acre pasture vs. no fence at all? The pig is getting plenty of space, and has plenty of room to roam around. Eggs from chickens raised in a very large fenced area (a quarter acre, half acre) are no better than eggs from chickens raised totally without fences. The chickens still get to eat grass, bugs, get fresh air, etc.
DeleteAnd before I made that comment, I didn't realize you were specifically talking about JW. Hers barely have any room (especially any raised in the barn stall).
Labels don't really mean anything. They're just words and are very subjective.
Labels don't mean a thing, that's for sure.
DeleteIn my opinion, free range is poor farming. Free range means predators have access to the livestock at any time. The animals are not protected. They can wander off at will, never to be found again. I keep a large flock of laying hens for market eggs, 2 goats, a few pigs. They all have ample fresh pasture to roam, clean bare ground/straw & hay for a few months in the winter. If they were "free range," I'd have no livestock by this Saturday. Maybe it's different out west where there's far more room to roam, I don't have experience farming in that part of the country. Here in the eastern half of the US, "free range" means you're losing stock hand over fist. I know of a large local farm that keeps free range meat and egg birds. Press him, and he admits to losing several birds per day. PER DAY. Yet at the farmers markets, customers will swarm to his booth for the $7/dozen "free range" eggs before they look elsewhere for responsibly raised pastured eggs. That don't require an insanely high price tag because their hens aren't getting picked off by predators on a regular basis. Free range my ass.
ReplyDeleteRe: Free range chickens. "The US Department of Agriculture only requires that they be given continuous outdoor access. In reality what that usually means is that the hens live in large barns housing thousands of chickens with just one or several open doors. USDA rules allow the outdoor area to be fenced and/or covered with netting-like material. The outdoor space, therefore, could be just a “screened-in porch with cement, dirt or a modicum of grass,” according to the Cornucopia Institute, a nonprofit group focused on sustainable agriculture. And often, the birds don’t actually use the outdoor access they have. In other words, “free-range” eggs mostly still come from large commercial egg production facilities."
ReplyDeleteThat's one reason I keep chickens. Mine are about as free range as you're going to get, as they have a fenced acre to roam on with plenty of cover and a secure coop for night. If they were truly just running around unprotected, I'd have no chickens. Even in my edge-of-suburbia we have roaming dogs, coyotes, raccoons and plenty of hawks.
The bigger the operation, I think, the harder it is to replicate something like this. I do know of an operation just south of me though that does a pretty good job considering their amount of birds. They are on pasture, and they do use very tall overhead netting to protect from predators. They have large coops for night. Oh, I'm in the West.
I agree that the free range label means next to nothing. Know your farmer.
I let my chickens out to roam freely (no fence) all the time and never have predator issues. The closest I've come to losing one was when it went near the road. Usually what I do now is keep them in for the morning hours and let them out in the afternoon, but probably a third of my flock can escape over the fence if they want (and they usually want).
ReplyDeleteI live on a fairly busy road, and am surrounded on 3 sides by farm fields/hedgerow. I have foxes, hawks, etc. Maybe I've been lucky (for years now), but I've only had 1 chicken killed at night. And that one was my fault, because I forgot to lock the coop.
Free range does not automatically mean death sentence. It depends on your area, and probably my other animals help deter predators some too.
Obviously if I was losing chickens I'd change things, but why fix what isn't broken?
10 acres is not free range enough? Truly free range is not safe. They would be killed by predators or dogs, hit by a car, stuck in a gully or stolen.
ReplyDeleteWell first of all the terms free range and organic have been rendered meaningless by gov't agencies cowtowing to big ag trying to gain market share in a niche. Having access to a little dirt lot outside of a building most won't ever leave isn't free range.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, the term can get nitpicked as well. How many farms would be free range using the definition of "zero borders"? Probably not many. Even then, if I have open range but instead a pack of LGD's that keep the animals contained, are they no longer free range too? If I run a ridiculously low stocking density that provides more pasture than they could possibly need, are they not free range simply because my neighbor five miles away wouldn't appreciate my animals rooting through their front yard? Meh.
Personally I'd stay away from the term to avoid being associated with the factory farms jumping the bandwagon; avoiding the sneers from people nitpicking 100 acres just because there's a perimeter fence a distant second. I think "pastured" covers it just fine....but I'm sure someone will take offense. They are free to shop elsewhere.