Um, Jenna, darling... You are scamming money out of people. Anything legit that you do sell, and actually hand over to others, is PALE in comparison to these jokes of workshops. Selling soap? Yeah, how much does that provide? TWO book deals? Let me see... Falconry with a Hobbit in the new century, and Merlin and Me? Yeah.. Oh good Lord.. You really do have delusions of grandeur. Did you know there has been conversation at at least two of your publisher's in-house discussion groups, that maybe it is time for them to move on from you? Yeah.. Jenna, you can afford to get a job. Stop making up grandiose excuses not to grow up. I cannot comprehend how you think you are qualified to teach anything except for how to screw up your life and kill as many animals as possible, um, by mistake.
Do you work at Storey? The reason I ask is that my husband does work at Storey, and I can confirm that there have been many discussions the past few months about how her new persona (the begging, panic, childish drama, etc) is affecting Storey's image. My husband said there have been discussions of pulling her books from their website, stopping distribution, etc. She is unlikely to ever get a book deal from them again. They are EXTREMELY unhappy with the unprofessional way she's been behaving.
I've known of Jenna ever since my husband brought her first book proposal home for me to look at, since I love homesteading books and blogs. I started following her blog after that. I became disillusioned after she started the donation/begging posts, and after she failed to follow through with the wool CSA (Storey knows about that too, and they are surprised and upset).
Since I know she reads this, the only way I can think of to validate that my husband works at Storey without giving anything away that would get him in trouble would be that the in her book proposal for Made from Scratch, she initially titled it "the Renter's Homestead" and it had a green logo.
So Jenna, you better be careful. This precarious situation is your own doing. You can't take advantage of other people without having it affect you. It's Karma, Darling!
I've been wondering about her big supporters. Do you think Mother Earth News knows about her shenanigans? What about her other sponsors? How many freelance writing jobs is she going to loose as word spreads of her bad business practices? Assuming she actually has any writing jobs.And I use writing in only the loosest sense. A chimp with a typewriter could do a better job
I write orders at work for the books we stock, when the spring 2014 Timber Press / Storey catalog gets here I will be very curious to see if her titles are still featured.
E - how did you slip through the Cold Antler Farm comment ban! ;) I'm tempted to start commenting again...but why bother, she can read it here. now she wants old spots, gee go figure.
She IS making Storey look bad and I'm glad they're aware of it. Every time she harps about how her royalties are "nothing" I wince because it sounds so ungrateful--the only reason she's anybody is because of her book deals. Not that a royalty check for some farm memoirs is going to pay the bills, but she never expresses any kind of gratefulness for her opportunities. Sad thing is, even getting dropped by Storey wouldn't put the brakes on her crazy train--she'll just spin a tale about how she didn't need them anyway and use the occasion to drum up even more donations.
I certainly do not purchase Storey published books any longer (which sucks for their business and especially employees) due to this shining example of a completely uncredible source of information writing how to books (the chicken one) and bs rose smelling lies about their life.
Yes...last time I checked, the whole point of having a well was to NOT have a water bill. Maybe she had to buy a new pump or the old one (like everything else on her place) keeps breaking? Or maybe by "well" she means "municipal water that comes out of pipes in the ground so I will call it a well"?
Amazing... She gets a well written, polite, yet thoughtful comment about her business plan and workshops etc... And she responds first off with this snarky remark....
"D, thanks for you comment. I would appreciate being a little more open about who you are though, as your comment is only linked back to a letter. I don't know if you are a 13 year old girl or in a nursing home after a lifetime of farming in Idaho"
Ah yeah. 13 year olds worry about fantasy writers on hobby farms with crappy business plans. So do those oldsters in nursing homes.
No, it's a real leg inmate and polite question and so goes into the whole poor me, I'm too rich to get a job story again. Which makes absolutely no sense, really... Ever hear about part time work, honey? Just to get you up over a hump? Ugh... The comments and how she handles them is very telling.... The blog writings are so so nice and flowery but her behind the scenes snarky responses and venomy snips really ice the cake for me.
This is what I don't get. If she cannot pay her bills, and says she would make less if she got a job, then why does she not cut her expenses to bare bones? That would mean selling most of the animals.
She has two choices - make more or spend less. Any book on finances (and I know she has them - she has posted pictures of them) would tell you that. Why not reduce her stock of animals until she gets caught up financially, then, when she is in a more comfortable place, add them back as she can afford them? She mentioned reading, "The Complete Tightwad Gazette". I would recommend she read it again, and take Mrs. Dacyczyn's advice.
There is also a service called Consumer Credit Counseling which is offered at no charge. They would probably give her advice she doesn't want to hear though.
I think there are Princes in Nigeria who could take a lesson from her. In fact, maybe that should be her next workshop, "The Art of the Scam 101." I'm sure she wouldn't want to stop at one workshop, because it's something in which she truly has experience. I could come up with a whole curriculum, given a few hours like: "The Art of the Scam 102, How stories of cute, cuddly, dead baby animals can wring a few extra dollars out of donors, and make them feel good about it."
Don't forget, it's vitally important to the modern homesteader to pay for tae kwon do lessons. How many cloaks has she sold, er, actually delivered? I know she said she sold 8 of them, so I'm guessing there are 8 people that are looking for their money back.
I have to pay a sewage bill where I live, it's $75 three times a year. I don't have my own septic tank on my property so I think that's why I pay a sewage bill. Still, it can't be so much to break the bank!
Water and sewer bills are usually together. The sewage bill is the fee for taking away the waste water like washing machine, dishwasher, bath, toilet etc.
It's possible she has a sewage bill (though the well comment confuses me....).
We have our own well, but are connected to the municipal sewer line. It's a flat $80 per quarter, billed four times per year. The arrangement seems kind of rare, but we live right on the border between "city" and "village". i thunk its probably one of the most cost effective setups, since we don't need to maintain a septic field. We know she has a well, since she posted pics of it when she drove her truck into it a year or so ago.
She doesn't want to be out of debt. People who do and are commuted to be, lay a plan and stick to it no matter what. They don't make excuses why they need to buy needless consumer goods.
WOW pissing off you publisher. That's really bad. That kind of news get around the pub world in short order and will make other pubs think twice about signing with her.
What struck me was her statement about how getting a loan to buy truck was in her "past life." Many, many people on her blog, myself included, tried to steer her away from buying that truck and, instead, FIXING the paid-for Subaru she already had in-hand instead. No matter what the Subaru needed, fixing it would have been cheaper in the long run than buying a vehicle and starting to make payments with interest all over again. But, again, she saw herself as a scrappy farmer, driving a truck, so she went into debt and gave away her paid-for vehicle. It wasn't a "past life" mistake, either, it was within a year or so of being on the property she is now. She was already a grown-up with money problems at that point, and she only made it worse.
Jenna, honey you are not the only single woman living on a farm paying for everything yourself. Many of us do it And with kids in school.
You are not special in that regard.
What it takes is commitment and diligence and self sacrifice. None of which you have.
I have my farm, my animals, my homesteading life, but what I don't have is debt, other than my mortgage. I also don't have animals that can't feed me. That's my "right now" rule.
I contacted Mother Earth over a year ago. What put it over the top was her participation in their fair, like Joel Salatin, and other sincere, experts in their fields. I'm always thinking of contacting Storey. I own many of their educational books, and am surprised that a publisher so respected in a country life and agriculture would allow such a person to "teach" others about farming. When reading about her farming debacles, I can't help but think "It tells you how to do this right in a Storey book, why doesn't she just read one?" Or why don't they giver her some?
I think being in the same lineup with Joel went to her head. Yes, Joel probably makes just as much (if not more) from speaking these days than he does farming, but the difference between them is that he paid his dues for years before he became a high-profile farmer. My parents visited Polyface in 1996, and even though he'd already written several books by then he was still plugging away at the broilers and perfecting his buying clubs. I think Jenna looked at him next to her, figured being a "word farmer" sounded like a pretty sweet gig, and totally missed the part where you have to put in years of hard work before you can really call yourself an expert.
The fact that Jenna was a keynote speaker among with Joel Salatin and Temple Grandin that year made me cancel my Mother Earth News subscription and I wrote them a lengthy letter. They got back to me, apologized and said they'd look into her blog, qualifications and treatment of livestock. It was handwritten on Mother Earth News stationary, so I think they took it pretty seriously.
Kris, thank you for telling us that. I contacted them around that time also and let them know that I was cancelling my subscription because of her. I told them that if they felt she was an expert in anything it proved to me that I could not trust them for any of the information they shared.
If you read Joel's website and watch some of the videos you can see he has a lot going on. He's not just an author. Somewhere, in something her wrote it said they (polyface) had reached the million dollar mark. That doesn't happen by accident it takes hard work and a lot of it.
What I find interesting is if you look back towards the beginning of CAF she had a great deal of admiration for Gene Logsdon and Wendell Berry and wanted to emulate them, Joel came later. What is completely lost on dear JW is that these men run working farms that are their primary job even if the author/speaker money is equal to or better than the farm money. They are farmers first and foremost and authors second. JW doesn't want that. Too much work. She wants to be an author that pretends to be a farmer. And that won't work for long. No authenticity to it. No BTDT to write about.
I am very happy to hear that the publishers are getting feedback on their false prophet, so to speak. If she had just simply put her animals first, kept enough to do it right and earned money without cheating people, her life would be very different.
It says a lot that at least three of us here, who don't know each other, read her blog, subscribe to a magazine, and cared enough to take our time to contact them about the self-promotion without bona fides. Clearly, people who know anything about farming can see that this is not "farming."
Funny thing is...I'm not a farmer. I used to dream about having my own homestead and have done quite a bit of research about it. I have also talked to many people who are or were farmers. In fact, my dearest friend and her husband are farmers (who by the way, work full-time off the farm) and my father's family had a dairy farm. I was raised in the country surrounded by farms, but didn't live on one. In the last few years after visiting farms, and much thought and prayer, I realized that it was more hard work than I really had the time or desire for. I also realized that raising livestock was a heavy responsibility and took much devotion. I know myself rather well and knew I couldn't handle the responsibility. I needed to concentrate more on being a single mother and raising wonderful people instead of following a dream that I might not even like in the end. I think I made the right choice.
All that to say...even though I am not a farmer, I didn't need to be one to realize when someone was not what they claimed to be. Being a farmer and an expert is not something she can honestly claim. It wasn't hard for me to figure that out by just reading her posts and her comments. She usually always gives herself away if you read carefully what she has to say. Also, most people I would consider experts have put in many years of learning and experience to have earned that designation. JW usually becomes an expert in three months or less.
I am so very thankful to have found this blog - I thought I was the only person who was hoodwinked by Cold Antler Farm. Jenna's blog has gone from one of inspiration to plain money grubbing, snake oil salesmanship. I am in shock she asked people to come to her farm to do the chores and also rent a hotel or campsite and buy their own food. I've yet to see any reason she can't get a part time job to ease the strain of her life, or a ROOMMATE to help pay the mortgage. I'm so thankful to have found Meredith's blog! In my frustration I also sent an email to Storey publishing expressing my displeasure at the poor ethical business practices and animal care described at Cold Antler Farm.
Anon 9:40- I admire your being able to make tough choices- and to be raising wonderful people, there really is no more important job. I have livestock, and to do it right takes a lot of dedication, and it is not easy- for anyone- which is one reason I disliked her selling it to everyone, because not everyone can or would want to for any number of reasons!
"I am ALWAYS working, always trying, always have money coming in and going out. Right now it's tough but I have two book checks coming and some ad deals in the ether and I'll catch up just in time to fall a little more behind. Thus, farming. I may be farming words, ads, stories, and classes but I am making a living off my land through a VERY diversified crop in a new landscape of technology, publishing, agri-tourism, and inspiration. It isn't traditional, but it is what I do. And I'll keep doing it."
Is she joking? Is this the script for an SNL skit?
And, just like magic....POOF! She makes the snarky reply to D's comment disappear (along with D's comment itself). But you know what? She can't disappear the comments here, and that's probably killing her.
Wow, maybe she actually took a step back and looked at how she was coming across. If so, I applaud this move towards self-awareness. Maybe it's a good sign.
Wow, I was hoping to find a new blog to follow the adventures of a fellow farmer, but instead I find someone seemingly obsessed with Jenna Woginrich. I think you do more to advertise for her than she does! All that negativity must get exhausting.
I don't know much about either of you or the rivalry, but God forbid anyone tries something new and makes mistakes. Judge not lest ye be judged should certainly be gospel, especially when it comes to predation on backyard chickens. It's happened to all of us, apparently even you according to your 2012 blog entry (A local Craigs List find...meet "Roger"...as his former family called him.
Once on my property chickens become nameless. With all the predators in the area the less emotionally invested in the chickens the better. Not sure being referred to anonymously as hens or roosters would lessen the impact of one getting killed, but its been my long standing philosphy with foster dogs (their breed is their "name" while hanging at my place) so I'm going to give it a try.)
Or is that taken out of context? Perhaps some of Ms. Woginrich's blogs are also taken out of context.
I always thought this community was here to support each other. Sadly it seems, no.
If you're looking for the Cold Antler Fan Club, you're on the wrong blog. This is the place for folks who have been scammed out of their money for products that were never delivered (wool CSA, webinars, etc.), ignored and left without thanks for donations, and been vilified and attacked for trying to offer helpful advice to Jenna. It's hard to take those things out of context.
You didn't just come here today looking for a new blog to follow. You came here to troll, you're probably a Clan member. At least one a week pops up. If you want to diminish the comments on this blog, quit trolling. We'd lose interest if Jenna walked the walk, and her rabid fans quit attacking anyone who doesn't buy her fantasies.
Can I ask you how many chicks you've lost to predation IN your house? If it's on par with Jenna, well, let's just say you'd be more comfortable with the type of "farming" that happens at CAF than here. I never donated to her, don't care about her fantasies, but do care about people lying to others on a grand scale, like a pied piper leading them in to some faux-homespun desperation money magic machine. Some of us were raised to attend to our responsibilities, and know that animals come first. If you're comfortable with someone who lets sheep lie dead or dying in the field when the shearer comes, suddenly unable to count because they're in a hurry to get to some event, well CAF is for you. I hope you don't condone such things. They're not mistakes. If you want more, we can create a long list of similar examples. If you want to share your knowledge and learn from others, we'd be more than happy to welcome you.
Anon 4:01 methinks something stinks in Denmark--- you try pretty dismally, I will add, to quote the bible, and then when you are caught out as the JF you are, you then use the term WTH...which no true God fearing person would use.. So, BE GONE JENNA, OR JENNA FAN. Trolls please exit stage left.
Thanks Meredith. I'd hate to see this blog go the way CAF did as far comments are concerned and there certainly is no need for name calling. I found it very hurtful to be called a troll over there just because I had a difference of opinion or to be told I was just "jealous"
Why can't Jenna just come in here and explain herself? It seems that many have either been ripped off or are outraged with the treatment of her animals. Google CAF and people will get this blog, letters are going to her publishers, neighbor's like Katz are shunning her craziness and her internet reputation is sinking lower and lower each week. I mean if Gov Christie can do it maybe you can Jenna? Most of the people on this blog were your supporters and feel that you are not behaving in an ethical way either as a "farmer" or a "writer" who is giving both of those professions a bad rap. I like that Meredith extends freedom on her blog and that should extend to you too. What do you have to loose? Is it so hard to be humble and admit that you have made many mistakes and devise a plan of some sort of GIVING BACK as opposed to incessant TAKING. Talk to us.
I wish she would. I think if she did most everyone, if not all, would forgive her and help her start over. Even one of her idol's Jon Katz is trying to reach out to her- his blog post http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2014/01/05/what-is-safety-fear-and-the-meaningful-life-when-truth-snuffs-fear/ is his message to her. The last sentence of the post is " In truth, there is so much power, there is so much comfort, and here is another thing I learned on my journey: truth squelches fear like a big bucket of water on a smoldering match." He's begging her to tell the truth and come clean.
Wishful thinking. She has her amen charlies who will come to her defense--check out the latest comment she let through on her pig post. I'm going to have a good laugh if the person who wondered what her pigs look like as adults was asking in all innocence only to have a Clan fan jump down her throat.
All this energy and effort toward one silly girl. Likening her to farming advice is like likening music or fashion advice to Miley Cyrus. How about the atrocities that go on in big farms on a massive scale that are hushed up by "ag gag" laws. I GUARANTEE that the atrocities that go on in these places are far worse than a little girl playing farm. Why aren't we spending our energy on that? Jenna is pop culture. Devoting blog time to her exploits at CAF is like devoting precious time to TMZ. Yeah its fun to read/watch, but as substantive as a rice cake. It's not her fault she found the formula that works for publicity.
I've never had a chicken IN my house, except to doctor them, and even that was only in the mud room sink.
Anon 5:26 you're pretty funny. You've tried pretty dismally to quote Hamlet and then display none to impressive sleuthing skills. Not a Jesus Freak. Is that what JF means? If I was god fearing I wouldn't be participating in this. In fact, I actually don't believe in god, but most people recognize that idiom and what it's getting at.
No, I'm just a small time 3-generation farmer trying to learn and appreciate anyone's experiences. As my horse trainer says, look at what those around you and do the opposite.
I've read some of Jenna's blogs. Very entertaining, but I don't know anything about dead sheep. Must have been prior to December 2013 when I stumbled upon CAF. I haven't gleaned much by way of instruction from her blogs as I don't find them too full of instruction.
I've also read Salatin's books. He's been turned into animal services as well for inhumane practices, but the reports are usually out of ignorance of what farming is really like. I'm certainly not saying you guys are ignorant, just that sometimes things get misstated. But again, I don't know. It seems like some of you were there, so I'll have to take your word for it.
I guess what strikes me about this blog is that basically all I've read is you all trolling the CAF page and carping about it. Is it your agenda to ruin this girl? If you want to lose interest in her, then stop reading her and talking about her. It seems like a terrible waste of time, especially if you don't find her that important. Anyone with a bit of sense is going to figure out she's no expert on anything.
You've got a 20-something girl making mistakes. Thank god (no not god as I don't believe in him)…thank my age that I didn't make my 20-year old mistakes during a time when I didn't have better sense not to blog about it and a huge public forum for people to criticize me through.
Apparently publishing companies are making money off her, why? Because people who don't know better are buying the books and buying the fantasy. Is that Jenna's fault or is it the media and the insane marketing of the fantasy hobby farm life?
I've enjoyed her blogs, just as I've enjoyed some of Meredith's that aren't Jenna related and the inspiration and ideas I get from them…and then I put on my muck boots, head out into 0 degree weather and tend to the animals and the reality of farm life. A little bit of the fantasy makes it just a bit easier.
That being said, does anyone have some advice on using the deep litter method in the chicken coop, or whether salt is safe to use to melt some of the ice around the horse feeder?
I use the deep litter method in my coop and wouldn't have it any other way. I do a total clean-out of the chicken house every 8 weeks or so in the winter (depending on how nasty the weather has or hasn't been) and about every 6 weeks in the summer. The stuff I clean out gets carted to the compost pile (though the hens usually just spread it all around because they LOVE rooting in the compost). The deep litter method is advantageous in the winter because it generates a little heat and keeps the hen house warmer. In the summer, things can get pretty gross if you're not careful, so I typically skim off the top few inches every week and add a fresh layer in between total clean-outs.
Thank you, I appreciate it. This is the first year I've tried it and I think the coop has been a lot warmer. I haven't had to put in a heat lamp and I haven't had the comb frostbite I had last year. I wasn't sure whether to just keep adding shavings or to clean it out, but it sounds like I can wait a few more weeks.
I use a combo of straw and shavings mainly because shavings can get pricey. We don't have the weather extremes you all so it lasts most of the winter. Gets cleaned out when the weather warms and used in garden walks, side dressing for crops or in the compost.
We've also used shavings from the stock trailer when show season was over the topped with straw. The girls love digging in it.
Can't remember where I read it but one blog comment suggested using fireplace or stove ash around troughs and on paths for better footing. Havent tried it, we don't get snow and ice.
1. People post here with inside information on the goings-on at Storey. 2. Jenna finds out, since we know she reads this blog. 3. She freaks out, rightfully so, because it seems there are some impending consequences to her actions. 4. She takes to Clan Cold Antler and writes a blog post about the horrible people over here saying horrible things about her. Perhaps she even includes the information about Storey, spinning it to make it sound like people are out to get her. 5. Instead of addressing any of these issues herself, she keeps a low profile, deletes her own nasty comment in response to an honest question, and waits for her fans to sally forth and bring the heat over here. 6. ... 7. Profit! (Seriously, the donations are probably rolling in over there at the Clan, as they always do when she puts on the poor me routine.)
X (Isn't that the symbol of a wrong answer from Family Feud?) What if I'm really just a regular person that stumbled onto these blogs and into this maelstrom?
I so SO SO SO wish people with an interest in animal welfare would pay more attention to bad laws and mass atrocities.
That's nice, and I do think the animal welfare issues are important, but what I think is more important is her unethical business practices and the fact that national publishers with prior good records are promoting her as some kind of homesteading or farming expert when she clearly is not and as a result her extremely financially precarious lifestyle is essentially being supported by the donations of kind-hearted folks who receive no thanks for their efforts. I also find it disturbing that she routinely offers expensive programs, clubs, CSAs, etc., doesn't end up delivering the product she was selling, and then refuses to issue refunds. The unethical animal treatment and exploitation that has occurred on her watch is, to me, just more evidence that she is pulling the wool over a lot of eyes that aren't educated enough to know better. So I congratulate you on your animal welfare activism (seriously, I think it's good that you care), but the answer here isn't for us all to move on to bigger causes.
No, really it is for all of us to move on, because judging from Jenna's own words, her "business" isn't doing that well.
I just did a random google search of farm workshops. There are hundreds, all asking for a fee. I looked around my area and found many. Cheese, soap, etc. Just sharing information. How is that different than what is going on here? Unethical business practices? Compared to what goes on on a bigger scale? I applaud you for towing the line, but again, why focus on this girl rather than what really goes on in bigger facilities?
It's kind of amusing that you come in here and say it's for "us" to move on when you clearly don't care. The only difference between you and one of her die-hard defenders is a pronoun change--"we" need to move on instead of "you" people need to move on. Plus given your persistence I'm beginning to think that you are indeed here for the very reason I suspected at first, which is to leap to her defense. You're just using a different tack than most of the others who've come around. That's okay, because you're really not going to change any minds here, but you're welcome to keep trying. As Meredith said, all comments are welcome.
Oh come now, let's not be coy. You can say whatever you like, but there are only two reasons for you to still be posting here: either you do indeed have a personal investment (positive or negative) in this situation *or* you're just getting off on trolling. It doesn't really matter what your agenda is, but let's call a spade a spade.
Coy? Always love that word. No, not being coy. I'm really interested in the information and the dialogue. Isn't that the purpose of your blog? What "spade" is that?
Do you really want to know "why,?" Or do you just want us to allow current practices to continue at CAF, and just keep this little secret away from the fawning, desperate for belonging, beneficent public? Kind of like, just don't think about what's in the hot dogs. or "what about the child soldiers?" If it's the former, we can explain again, with a list of occurrences. .
Momma Deb was attacked for asking to see a picture of the damn pigs, are the Clan so paranoid and crazy that every question gets hyper inflated into a personal attack. What kind of farmer offers repeated pig shares but no information about the damn pigs. This is just damn ridicilous
Yes, they are that paranoid and crazy. But I bet you dollars to donuts that she's the one stirring them up behind closed doors over there--it fits her passive-aggressive modus operandi.
Again, I don't know Jenna. And now I'm totally convinced that you all are totally paranoid. So said because you have a beautiful website and an engaged community. But just as what's going on nationally, a bunch of loud mouths making waves over issues that aren't really the issue. And unfortunately, while you all waste time on CAF, countless animals will suffer and die because you focused on the wrong enemy. So, while you're looking at CAF, also look at TMZ, because that is on par with the fight you're fighting.
The animosity against Jenna is completely her doing. I can't believe you've carefully read the archives here without noticing dozens of comments saying how much they used to love reading Cold Antler. Many people here have contributed to Jenna in many ways. Some of them have paid hundreds of dollars for products that were never delivered, and no refunds given. Some here have been to her workshops, some live in her area, we've had a commenter who went to college with her. Some people have simply given money out of kindness and were never offered two words in return "thank you." The people here are like the friends or family of someone as they watch that person go into a mental and physical decline, and feel helpless to do anything about it. I think it's healthy to vent about it, it certainly is understandable.
You won't find any evidence of this on CAF because Jenna has a habit of deleting anything she doesn't like. Some of the posts where she reported things she's done, and the comments exploded with complaints or even just advice she didn't like, those have been deleted. Her blog has slowly devolved from a friendly place where there are honest discussions of homesteading to an advertisement for contributions. I don't believe anyone here wants to see her fail and lose everything, but I think everyone fears it. If you believe anyone here is paranoid, too bad you can't see the paranoia Jenna has exhibited, you can't see it because she's deleted it.
If you are truly who you say you are, I sincerely apologize, but I have to say, I'm not convinced yet. If you seek to understand what's going on here, you would be better off observing and not attacking. I totally don't understand the TMZ comment.
Imagine a hard working guy milking as a day job and coming home to his little scrappy homestead where he and his partner are barely able to make the mortgage. And they start reading Cold Antler in the good years, and are inspired, maybe send her a few bucks, and then...devolution into what it is today. Jenna earns a lot of animosity because she comes off as entitled and especially classist. A part-time job is beneath her lifestyle needs, and she characterizes people who do that as something other than a wolfkin braveheart like herself. People feel dissed, and betrayed by buying into her early hope, her fabulous optimism, her words of soaring inspiration.
Unfairly perhaps, we had expectations that she would do what working people do to save the farm, when the going got tough, as we knew it would. We, again unfairly, expected that she would write about it eloquently and reflect our own struggles and inspire us. We were shocked that she didn't appreciate the help that many experienced farmers tried to offer her on the blog. When her friends publicly tried to reach out. The venting here is part disappointment. Part betrayal. Part anger at ourselves for believing in it just a little bit.
And when we tried to help, we were blocked. We watched as animals died, or kept inadequately or disposed of when boring. It was a scandal and we were outraged. What you read here is anger at poor husbandry, not a pop culture attack.
Finally, I think, some of us, could have gotten by the tantrums, the big fails, the disrespect to working people, the romanticist acquisition of parts of mountain culture, including embarrassing verbal flourishes in print like "son", but not the profound work ethics of same people...because hey, we were all young and stupid once, and she is at least brave enough to say all that crap out loud. But in a most horrifying way, she is losing it in slow motion, and you are reading here concern for someone we cared about deeply once, because if we didn't we wouldn't need to vent on this blog. So 1 part betrayal, 1 part anger at the disrespect, 1 part anger at animal abuse and 1 part wild fear that she is slowly going crazy in front of us and there is nothing to do but watch the wreck. Not all of us feel all these things, but that is what I read into a lot of the comments.
My wish for Jenna, with all those words and brilliance and her ability with her writing to cause people to stop reading and stare off into space, and dream a bit and then borrow her courage...my wish for Jenna is that she take a year off, go private, sell the animals, slow down, find herself, travel the world, write a novel, change things up, get some really good therapy, and figure out what is going wrong. And then come back, healed up.
In the meantime, this blog serves as a really important outlet. I find it disturbing when someone screams for help in the form of money, but when people try to offer their own experience, strength and hope to her, they are labeled as concern trolls, blocked, deleted. This blog, which no one has to read, helps people realize that their reactions are not off-base.
I'm seriously considering buying a clan membership just so I can report back to y'all here. And the best thing is...she would have to take my money, because it's money, and she would have no clue which follower I was. On the other hand, though, that's a lot of cash, and I'm not sure I could justify forking it over.
Don't do it. Just tuck your money back into your wallet and congratulate yourself on being wise. Thousands of other people on blogs, and all the friends you know personally will probably tell you their thoughts on spirituality and relationships and let you see the insides of their houses FOR FREE lol.
Jenna owes me no explanation, she's never robbed me of a dime. my posts concerning cold antler farm exist as deflected comments to posts on a public blog whose author prefers I not voice my difference of opinion comments on. so I vent here. nothing I say will cause her to succeed or fail, takes better or worse care of her animals, or deliver services and products to those who have paid for them...or not.
write a blog? expect comments, especially from those passionate about the subject. run a business? expect reviews of products and services rendered (or not).
I'm with you 100 percent, Meredith. I don't expect change, either, but your blog has, at least, convinced me I am not the only one who sees "the emperor's new clothes" for what they really are.
Can someone tell me what this means? It is from her 8/25/13 post entitled, "I'm there". She described how her piglets ran away and how she chased them down and put them back in their electric enclosure.
"It took another half hour but I grabbed an old two-mile plug in charger and set it up to replace the ten-mile charger that was a deadbeat. With the ground cleared around it (note to self, do not bite nails for a few days or you may end up with ringworm) I knew the charge was good. I waited until a pink nose touched it and I heard a squeal of pain that brought nothing but a smile to my face. I ran off to get the pigs their water and poured some of it right on the grounding rod just for spite."
It means exactly what you think it means. She punished the pigs with electric shock because they broke through the fence and caused trouble. When they squealed in pain, it brought a smile to her face. No understanding that it was her job to make a pig-proof fence, or take responsibility for the fence being broken. It is the pigs job to try to break out.
This is what real farmers do. When the pigs break out, roll up a newspaper good and tight and hit yourself over the head for not fixing the fence.
I must have missed that blog post and reading that quote just turned my stomach. I knew she was neglectful but didn't realize she was so actively, intentionally cruel. That kind of behavior towards animals comes from a place where you are under the misconception that they think and behave like humans (and so can be "taught a lesson") when they really don't. Like rubbing a dog's nose in his mess when you discover it hours later--the dog doesn't remember, doesn't make the connection, and doesn't understand why you're angry and shoving his face into the ground. At least the pigs' suffering is over now.
You absolutely want an electric fence to work and reliably produce a shock.strong enough the won't want to test it again. to me this reads as sadistic though...enjoying pain out of spite rather than accepting the shocks pain as purpose is disgusting.
looking at the post more there's possibly a reason the pigs tested a previously working fence. she says heard them after giving Merlin fresh water, she then gives the pigs their water once caught. pigs do not sweat and are very susceptible to heat. they have no natural mechanism to cool themselves...except their brains. they seek shade and will create or use swallows to lower their body temperature. access to fresh cool water is a no brainer. Pigs can see, hear, and smell water. Perhaps giving them water before freshening her horses would have prevented this outing?
perhaps daily fence checks to make sure the electric wire was not buried in mud and shit would have kept the voltage up? I'm not sure she knows how to properly install or use electric fencing based on the frequency of animals on the wrong side of the fence.
as we all know farming is a learning experience. what works for you, your animals, your property differ but education is KEY.
educate yourself or victimize yourself (im the most abused animal on the farm? come on now).
managing animals out of spite is like punishing a child out of anger. yes, a lesson needs to be learned either way, but ones frame of mind has as much to do with it as the punishment itself.
It means she wants to strengthen the ground, so their shock will be worse, end result in that she wants them to pay for getting out. Did you all see the spit hole she had them in (thankfully their misery is over now that she slaughtered them). I can't blame them for trying to get out- just like every other animal does at her place.
Don't overreact, now. Getting shocked by an electric fence isn't "suffering". I've been shocked many times, and I wasn't scarred for life. She poured water on the grounding rod so it would actually make a ground. When the soil is dry, the ground isn't very good and sometimes the fence will fail because of it.
I can understand her feelings there, because sometimes animals get out because the electric fence fails, even when you've done everything you can do. When we get bad droughts, my fence stops working and short of pouring buckets of water on the grounding rod, there's not much I can do about it.
Don't get so zealous over attacking her that you read too much into things.
But the fence was working fine. She said when the pig's nose touched it, it let out a squeal of pain. Then she went to to say that it made her smile. Finally, she said she poured water on the grounding rod out of spite.
It sure seems to me she enjoyed the pig's pain, and made an attempt to produce more.
Regarding the fence, it sounds like she was just doing what you are supposed to do to get it to work. Maybe she enjoyed it too much, or perhaps she was just overjoyed at something she did actually working properly, but it wasn't torture.
Anon 11:11, did you see the part where she said the 10-mile charger was a deadbeat? That means it wasn't working. Or if it was working, it wasn't producing a high enough charge to be effective. The pigs squeal was probably part pain, but mostly surprise. Getting shocked isn't pleasant, but it certainly isn't torture. And the shock only lasts a split second.
And I've smiled before when my naughty goats do everything in their power to outsmart my electric fence and finally fail. It doesn't mean we're sadists, it means we're happy to have won the battle.
She was pouring more water on to make sure it had a good ground, not to specifically inflict more pain.
Thank you to those who explained how the fence works. I had no idea - until now. THAT is the type of discussion and knowledge being passed on that I miss. Hopefully we can continue the intelligent sharing of thoughts and ideas here...thanks to Meredith.
Meredith's wise comments on the other blog made me want to meander over here to see what she was all about. I am glad I did. I started reading this blog a couple of years ago and learned many things from her, too. Thank you, Meredith, for putting up with me and my crazy questions. I appreciate your patience!
I'm with everyone else on the comment about the pigs. They do need to know the fence will shock them so they will stop testing it and trying to escape. And pigs are notorious for escaping wherever they are, whether it's a perfect pen or a s#ithole. But I am always concerned about it when Jenna appears to be quite gleeful about butchering her animals, saying things like, "TODAY I GOT TO WATCH A CHICKEN DIE!!" and then posting graphic images. Listen, we butcher here, too, but it's never gleeful and I hate to do it. But then again, I don't get a thrill from proving how different from the "otherkin" I am. That's just a distinction that's lost on me.
I read several blogs,mostly homesteading/farming related, some that I've followed for years and I have never seen any writer cause so much anger and hurt as Jenna does. That is not a coincidence, where there's smoke, there's fire. Bottom line though, nothing is going to change, Jenna has proven over and over she is perfectly happy with the things are, only time will tell how this story will end.
Thank you for explaining the electric fence - I originally posted the question. I am not a farmer and honestly do not know how they work. I thank you all for the explanation and apologize if I read something into it that wasn't there.
I know most of us miss the good ole days when CAF blog was about homesteading Can anyone recommend other blogs they're reading that are informative and inspiring? A google search didn't come up with much :-(
I like the Sugar Mountain blog. Sometimes his political posts aren't to my taste, but they are easy to skip. This guy is the real deal. He puts in a lot of info into the comments section when people ask questions, and I can attest to the fact that his pastured pork is delicious. Lots of detailed information on animal husbandry and other stuff. http://sugarmtnfarm.com/home/blog/
Electric fences have to be "hot" to work. You need to make sure they work and work well- most chargers have a snapping sound so that you do know they are working. Done right electric fence is very handy, but there is maintenance involved in keeping them.
Ohio Farm Girl has a great blog. She really knows her stuff and seems to be the real deal. She makes me laugh, and spares no details about the realities of farm life. You should definitely check her out!
Just looked at Ohio Farm Girl's blog...love it! She's very entertaining and educational, and does not appear to be delusional in the slightest. Thanks for the tip, Anon 2:26. I just found a new morning read!
That would be interesting, since JW is a self proclaimed non-religious person. You should read her blog more carefully, then you'd understand the contradictions and the concerns.
LOL. I'm going to check those blogs, but I'll say I'm thankful to CAF for bringing me to this blog, and those of others who post here! You guys are terrific! As far as a list of the dead and suffering pets/livestock, I'll start with one I couldn't comprehend: A newly acquired lamb that died after the pony Jasper "played" with it. Hopefully most people know, and if you don't, maybe you'll learn here, that when you get a new animal, especially a young one, you keep it a little separate and quiet until it acclimates somewhat. You don't scare it to death, running for it's (newly taken from it's family) life from a much bigger animal.
She posted something under the piglet picture post about saying a prayer for Meredith.
And I think Red Beard is Jenna. But "it" spells correctly, so maybe not. Although he/she sure does read all these comments over here, and seems to memorize them apparently. But he says he's done with it...we'll see.
Haha, I love that she said "Please keep blog comments civil, even in my defense," when a) she's been known to post an uncivil blog comments or two herself (now deleted) and b) she's moderating all the comments, so she made a conscious decision to let that comment through in the first place.
Wow, the butcher shoots the pigs in the head to stun them? That must take real talent, I mean what if they accidentally killed one. You know, when they shot it in the frickin' head! Sounds like these guys are right up Jenna's alley.
You can tell by reading that entry that Jenna is a faithful reader of this blog. Going on at length about how wonderful the forest windbreak and how much bedding they had. How simple it is for anyone to raise pigs. Heck, even someone as clueless as herself can do it! Step right up folks! Get yourself some hogs. Let them hang out in your woods until you are ready to eat them.
As painfully obvious as it was that that blog post was painstakingly tailored to address all the things that are being said over here, I will give her credit for writing a post that had a little bit of the old vibe--a thorough explanation of the process, no overly precious affections (son, darlings, etc.), and even a modest creative flourish at the end. I hope she makes more posts like that.
I'm by no means an expert on pig slaughter, but I do believe that is the correct way to dispatch them. From my understanding, they need to die by bleeding out to protect the meat, so you stun them then stick them in the neck to bleed out. Stunning them before sticking them I suppose is less traumatic and painful. But yes, her post addresses everything that has been said on this blog and it was a glimpse of the old Jenna. Hopefully it's a start but she has a lot of fences to mend, both literally and figuratively, it will take time, but I sincerely hope she finds her way back!
Yes, that's how you kill hogs. You shoot them in the head and then cut their carotid artery so they bleed out. Are we going to nitpick over every single teensy think she says now? Because commenting on the way the pigs were slaughtered is nitpicking, and if you don't know how pigs are normally killed it just makes this group look bad. I'd really hate to see this group get so radical.
Since some of us read these blogs to learn, we like the nit picking. It gives good info about why and how things are done. I saw it as a discussion of correct slaughter and butcher methods.
I don't see any change. I see Jenna responding to the posts here, that she reads daily. Hoping for acceptance, which will turn to donations. The shelter had one wall. I have BEEN to her her place I have SEEN that shit hole. She can paint it any way she likes. She ought to know that it is illegal to feed meat or offal of any kind to pigs that will go out for public consumption, and since she has already taken money for these pigs, she is breaking the law. Look it up Jenna. Do not be fooled by her desperate attempts to quell the un-rest, to her, she must do what she can, because her living comes from fooling people out of their money. Do not be fooled. When I see her actually proving the goods that she took money for, and not neglecting animals, then I might begin to cut her slack. So far, that has not happened.
You are right - her post today reflected everything said here about the pigs. The escape, electric fence, living conditions and slaughter. I was glad to see her comments about the slaughter were respectful and not flippant like some of her other posts. And yes, she did sound more like the Jenna I used to enjoy reading.
Now if only she would make good on the wool CSA...
Well, wool CSA and webinar folks, Jenna posted a comment this morning on the first pig post that said she offered refunds to anyone who preferred that to waiting. One of y'all should email her and see if she will finally make good on that offer. I would be interested to know if she is finally being sincere about giving a refund.
Her refund offer was $10 a month, which, according to her, is "all she could afford". At that rate, it would take 2 years for the money to be refunded. Like how she didn't mention that little fact in her comment?
Geez. Yeah, that was conveniently omitted. I can't imagine offering a monthly refund for something that you had to pay for as a lump sum up front. You should get a full refund, all at one time, period, end of story.
So now she's trying to psychologize us. "Because when they see someone doing something awesome, they say 'f*ck, why can't I do something that awesome.'" Right. That's why the CSA members are so angry. It's just awesome to screw your friends. Yes. Jenna seems to be trying to turn over a new leaf, but it's beginning to sound like more justification of actions she shouldn't be proud of, and more denial of the reality that is CAF.
Also, in one of her recent comments, she says she has always been open to people emailing her with suggestions, questions or concerns, I KNOW from personal experience that isn't true. Telling the truth is not slander, and it is good for the person who finally decides not to enable you anymore.
I've been close to a couple of people who have done 12 step programs. One of the steps is to make an honest and complete inventory of all the wrongs you've done to people and to try to make amends. Most people can't completely make amends, but they need to acknowledge the wrongs they've done, and they need to accept it if others don't forgive them for it.
The original Birchthorn post was lacking that long second-to-last paragraph and video. When I saw the original post earlier today, I thought it was pretty good and felt hopeful that she really was trying to turn over a new leaf. But editing to include the video is just a passive-aggressive little jab per usual. It's a shame she tacked that on.
I was thinking about it earlier today and I don't feel that she needs to make a public apology, since most of her viewing public has no idea what's gone/going on. But she definitely needs to get in touch with people privately--wool CSA, webinars, etc.--and make it right. Talking about refunds in a blog comment doesn't mean anything; being proactive and getting in contact with the individuals in question to directly offer a refund would be meaningful.
She does not need to make any apology, what would be the point? If she is not going to change her ways it is a waste of everyone's time. Her reference to dealing with internet trolls proves beyond a doubt that she is not sorry for anything. Her ego is monumental.
Her claiming people are just jealous is the funnies thing I've had in a while. Most of us have nicer homesteads than she. And seeing this fake nicey-nicey crap from her really makes me feel icky all over. It's so fake! If she were truly a nice person there would be no snarky, mean, hateful replies when people ask her questions or try to give her advice. It's not hard to see who she really is.
It is interesting the effect this blog has had on Jenna's behavior, isn't it? If she were confident that her actions were above board, then why would she change her behavior just for us? She knows she is not an honorable person, and is back-peddling to try and save face.
She claims Birchthorn is her first work of fiction. Ha! That was good for a chuckle.
Don't care if she apologizes. She's done the damage already, and she can only change what she does in the future. Can you imagine she doesn't even have a reliable source for pigs, seeing as she's raised them (although gotten ahold of them already partly grown, like her turkeys) multiple times? She's not reliable to people or animals. A narcissist doesn't change. As far as jealousy... well none of us would change lives with her, our integrity would bother us too much. But yes, it must be cool to have other people pay for your necessities and indulgences, and be treated like an expert when you seem more a prancing fool. What makes people buy into this? She's the poodle, being stroked and fed tidbits by her attendants, smiling all the way to the bank.
OK, it's game on! One chapter of Bitchthorn every week. We know she doesn't deliver when she's been prepaid, I wonder if she'll have the resolve to do it for free. You'll have to deliver now JW, everybody is watching.
She doesn't buy pigs from same people as before, for the same reason she buys hay from different sources... I will leave it up to you all to ruminate on why that is :)
Well, the first chapter is up. I made it almost through the first chapter before having to retch in the wastebasket. Why am I not surprised her farm wagon is shoddy?
Kind of reminds me of very bad fan fiction. Can't imagine doing a kickstarter or whatever to try and have it published. The world has enough of this sort of stuff in it and thank goodness, no one has to pay for it.
I don't care if her fiction is well-written or to my taste. I have to say that if she follows this out, week after week and then tries to sell the ending as she said, I will be impressed that she followed something through exactly like she said. It isn't begging for money and it uses a skill she has developed (selling words, whether you like her words or not, is something that she has done successfully). Her whole hawk on my arm on my pony thing is like living fan fiction so at least this is an appropriate form (written fiction) that doesn't hurt anyone or animals. Personally, I suspect she won't get enough comments and will drop it in mid-stream, cause that is a Jenna thing. But good on her for trying. Hey Jenna, win lose or fail, go for the discipline of finishing it.
I didn't read Birchthorn the first time around and I will skip it this time, but I 100% agree with you that if she does stick with this I will be impressed. Birchthorn is an actual product--she is producing words, a story--and if she can monetize that then more power to her. That's how it should be done, instead of writing loftily about being creative and being a maker and then turning around and begging for donations. I hope she sees it through this time.
To clarify, I'm skipping Birchthorn because the subject matter is not my cup of tea--I'm more into non-fiction farm literature. But I'm sure it floats someone's boat.
If one has the time between work and all other responsibilities to pursue creativity, who cares if anyone enjoys it. creativity is healthy for the artist within. I think farms fiction is a great niche for Jenna to explore.
I had not read the earlier version but I did read part of Chapter One today. I did not care for it. I'm not going to to nitpick the writing, it's not anything I would donate to for a Kickstart project though.
As someone who has done a fair bit of writing myself, I will say that much of this is "canned"- meaning the phrases she uses are commonly used to tie together a story line. "crying in the wind" for instance is one of the phrases used very commonly. The story would be *much* better if it was told in third person- about another person, not Jenna being the main character- because it harkens back too much to Jenna's ad hoc fantasy life- back at the house on Colfax Rd. I am happy she is sticking to writing, but I can't read anymore, it is way too writing 101 level for me.
Jesus! Do you really have nothing better to do with your day than rag on Jenna? It must be really nice in your ivory towers as you sit there and pass judgement on someone you don't even know. Just remember, it's a long, long way to fall.
Yes, I came across Meredith's blog through things I had heard on CAF blog. I have to say that as much as I wanted to hate the blog, except for the Jenna bashing, it's a nicely put together piece with some good info. I have had business dealings with Jenna and have had no issues. I just don't understand why people have to hate on others and send out such negative stuff. Isn't there enough crap going on in the world due to politicians w/o us regular folk going at it, toe to toe?
Oh stop with the hate speech. This isn't bashing, this is discussion of ethics and things that have been covered up for too long. Couldn't you see that it was about to die down from lack of interest? Don't come here and stir it up again, or if you do, don't complain about it. We have as much right to discuss what we believe here as Jenna does. At least we don't have a secret Clan site.
You're coming to the party a bit late and frankly I personally was moving on to getting my farm ready for spring, but your post made me stop and think, and well it really begs the question of you and the others who have chided us for speaking out about what is happening at CAF...
When you see something wrong do you not speak up? When you see others harmed or abused do you turn away? When you know people are being taken advantage of do you not warn others?
I would bet the answer to all those questions is NO, you do do something or say something.
You respond to or report the neighbor who abuses his dog. You post on Yelp if a business doesn't deliver. You warn friends and neighbors about a bad experience with an auto mechanic or contractor. You may even attend town meetings commenting about what's going on in your town.
So why or how is this any different? Animals are being harmed. People are being cheated. Money is being stolen. Would you have us sit by and let it continue so that we don't upset the universe? If you would then that is a sad commentary on a life lived in fear.
Just remember--“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke
And to all the Jenna fans and "protectors" out there, please know that she only allows comments through to the blog that benefit her. She has not approved comments that she thinks will make her look bad, or let people know the truth about her. She is very manipulative and very selective about what she posts, and what she lets others post. So don't take her blog posts or comments for gospel truth. She's a manipulator.
Thank you JMS, and the commenter after his/hers. Jennafans, I suggest you spend your time donating to Jenna, she's going to need it.As ye so so shall ye reap. She has ripped people off, ridiculed those with honest helpful suggestions (calling people dicks is really mature), and harmed/killed animals, and stolen money.
Joe...never mentioned him before. Must be new to the fan club.
She mucked out 1-1/2 feet of goat bedding and didn't hit bottom, how deep is it?
She can't trim 8 hooves by herself? Sheesh...try doing 40 ewes. Now that's hard on arms.
Burrs??? I thought she had pasture. Guess now she has weeds. That'll be pleasant come summer.
She's hoping 2 of the ewes are pregnant? Doesn't she have like 6 or 8. No shepherd would stand for such a lousey conception rate and its not the age of the girls it their maintanence. Can't make money or feed yourself if your ewes don't produce. If its a wool farm she wants do like the Aussies and raise wethers.
Five to seven year old sheep are still plenty fertile and that's still considered a good breeding age. Poor nutrition and worm load is her problem, not 5 year old sheep.
I went to a hay and pasture conference yesterday and they said if you improperly store and feed hay (like, feed on the GROUND) up to 50% of the hay is wasted...never even makes it into the animals. If her sheep are laying on the hay, they're clearly not eating it. So all that money is wasted...down the drain.
I've suggested to her before that she get a hay feeder, and she said she was working on it....that was YEARS ago.
You can make a great hayfeeder out of a 55 gallon plastic drum. Just cut nibble holes out of the side with a jigsaw and wire it to a fence. Costs hardly nothing and though it's not super pretty, it really saves on hay!
For all the spunky, scrappy, whatever stuff she calls the place, I am surprised that she doesn't do much more make-do stuff with found materials until the money comes in for the nice stuff at the TSC... we do. We have to. And our animals could care less.
It's not her money, so why should she worry about the hay? If she was working at a low paying job, or any job at all for that matter, she would worry about it. Now, if she needs hay, she just starts talking about how scared she is and doesn't know what she is going to do because she can't buy hay.
My question is *why* she can't seem to accomplish *anything* by herself? I have a HUGE amount of mucking to do with my sheep, and I do it alone, and at lambing I do it every day. I do all my sheep treatments alone (and I have many more than she does). I think she is just too freaking lazy to do anything herself. Think about it- has she ever done anything just by herself, other than her bucket brigade that almost kills her every day!! I spent hours and hours the other day working on livestock needs- and not a single other person in sight. And, as to Jasper getting harnessed? I call BS on that, that pony is and has been a yard ornament since the minute Jasper came to her place.
LOL I had less help with chores when I was 11. I am jealous, though, that I don't have the kind of friends that do my work for me. Maybe it should be called Minion Feed Lot, instead.
Response to OhioFarmGirl's "And that is all I got to say about that."
That is such a story of woe, and fiction. I guess we're the townfolk. Trouble is, we aren't yelling and getting into anyone's face, we're over here (to follow your metaphor) at the other end of the small town. You had to come over here to hear what we're saying, because we aren't yelling at anyone.
Here's another thing, she didn't come into town to buy feed, she came to get coffee and treats for herself. And no one is blaming her for trying to make money by selling things, we wish she would. She has claimed to sell things, took the money, but never delivered. She's down one her "luck" because she quit her job, and she refuses to work, so she comes around to panhandle from time to time, but the money doesn't go to feed her animals or pay her mortage. She spent $8000.00 on a pony. That's just one example. Some of the people down here have given her money or paid for products that never came.
It certainly is mean to imply that anyone is pushing her or kicking her while she's down. And it was a really nice touch to make the townsfolk sound like idiots who couldn't graduate 2nd grade. You don't know the whole story, but it was really nice of you to write a piece of fiction and pretend you do, and pretend you're the hero in town.
I don't even know who OhioFarmGirl is or how she figures into anything--I had to google to figure out what you were referring to. Kind of weird. Guess she doesn't have the whole story herself.
Isn't it funny that such a mean piece of writing was done by someone claiming the others were the "mean girls." When did verbal discussion, satire or even plain, old venting become the equivilent of physical bullying or assault? Are we all so precious now that we think just saying something critical of someone's business operation is the same as kicking them to the ground and stomping on them? OhioFarmGirl has obviously never been actually bullied or, believe me (and I say this as someone who was seriously bullied in school), she'd know the difference. Apparently, some people are supposed to be beyond criticism and untouchable.
Ohio farm girl is a bully. I know, because I was bullied as a kid and you never forget how bullies operate. Besides, pointing a finger at someone points three at yourself, did you know that OFG?
1 - It read like CAF. The fake-folksy language. 2 - I hope the publisher does know the whole, looonnngggg story or repeated "mistakes," despite good advice and better "contributions" rewarding titillating sob stories. 3 - She's not poor or weak. At least not poor enough to have to work, like most of us. And weak? She attacks, and allows others to attack those who disagree with her, and is maybe the greatest self-promoter around, these here parts (folksy term intentionally included) 4 - If others want to hitch to her wagon - if they feel that CAF is an operation worth defending and associating with as a farmer - that's their choice and their values. But you know, ol' Shep used to share this piece of advice... "Son, be careful, cause when you lay down with dogs, you might just wake up with fleas."
Jon did it again (even though I don't like you Jon, you do speak the truth when you refer to Jenna):
"Hubris is a close cousin of anger and panic. If you meet someone who lives in constant fear, I have found (myself surely included), there is voften, in fact, a loss of perspective, a denial of reality. What? The rules of the world apply to me? I have to pay for what I buy? The forces of the world are just waiting out there to rescue me and save me and show me again and again that I am better than most people, more wondrous and deserving? All I need to do is think positive thoughts and charge ahead."
Jon's right, and sadly, that point of view was sold to young people in colleges and schools when Jenna was going to school. It was also sold by a lot of people on television, on Oprah and shows like hers.
Before I was retired, we had to attend seminars every year or two to sell us on ideas like that, and we could be criticized by our bosses if we didn't buy into it. I always knew it was a false happiness, and that seminar leaders didn't necessarily know how to run a business or operate successfully in the real world. I was recently listening to NPR and heard about a study of depressed patients, they studied their grip on reality, and found out that it was actually better than people who are always happy. Even the mental health industry has pushed this false happiness. Now they are trying to find a way to help people who are depressed without breaking their ties to reality. It turns out that depression can be a great motivator in changing your life and fixing your mistakes.
I read the OFG blog post and it raised more questions than answers in my mind.
What is the difference between bullying and venting? It seems to me bullying would be posting the comments on the person’s website and venting would be posting comments on a different website. But I could be wrong.
Why do I come here and why do I go there? I honestly don’t know. I had my own disappointment with CAF and said my piece. I really do have better things to do. I wish I knew how to quit you both!
I think OFG was comparing this discussion with the story of Jesus and the crowd who wanted to stone the prostitute. He pointed out their flaws and they went away. It is true, we are all flawed, and believe me, I thought about that when I wrote my own post. Yet, I felt I needed to express my opinion about some questionable activities. What is the difference between stoning and venting?
Maybe I come here for the discussion. Or to see how things will play out. If you see something, should you say something, or is that bullying? Where is the line? That is what I want to know. Where is the line?
Jon Katz's piece was absolutely brilliant. I was going to say that this condition seems to especially affect those who are about 30 years of age, as I know many young people that age who seem to be having trouble figuring out how to support themselves without help, pay their own way and realize that your wonderfulness does not mean the world owes you a living. But Katz is my age, and the comments about Hubris can be applied to many people of ALL ages. That is probably my favorite piece of his writing; he was just so on-target.
I only read a few paragraphs of OFG's post - congrats on getting all the hits on your blog!
Anyways, I stopped reading because I did not identify with it. I DO want Jenna to make money. I do want to see her straighten her back, stand on her own two feet, and do something other than begging for money.
Yes, we do get snarky and giggly, imagining Jenna riding Merlin with Italics perched on her arm, as some reader does all the work for her as part of a haycation. That's blowing off some steam, as we watch someone who proclaims to be hardworking and independent call in helper after helper.
Um, Jenna, darling... You are scamming money out of people. Anything legit that you do sell, and actually hand over to others, is PALE in comparison to these jokes of workshops. Selling soap? Yeah, how much does that provide? TWO book deals? Let me see... Falconry with a Hobbit in the new century, and Merlin and Me? Yeah.. Oh good Lord.. You really do have delusions of grandeur. Did you know there has been conversation at at least two of your publisher's in-house discussion groups, that maybe it is time for them to move on from you? Yeah.. Jenna, you can afford to get a job. Stop making up grandiose excuses not to grow up. I cannot comprehend how you think you are qualified to teach anything except for how to screw up your life and kill as many animals as possible, um, by mistake.
ReplyDeleteDo you work at Storey? The reason I ask is that my husband does work at Storey, and I can confirm that there have been many discussions the past few months about how her new persona (the begging, panic, childish drama, etc) is affecting Storey's image. My husband said there have been discussions of pulling her books from their website, stopping distribution, etc. She is unlikely to ever get a book deal from them again. They are EXTREMELY unhappy with the unprofessional way she's been behaving.
DeleteI've known of Jenna ever since my husband brought her first book proposal home for me to look at, since I love homesteading books and blogs. I started following her blog after that. I became disillusioned after she started the donation/begging posts, and after she failed to follow through with the wool CSA (Storey knows about that too, and they are surprised and upset).
Since I know she reads this, the only way I can think of to validate that my husband works at Storey without giving anything away that would get him in trouble would be that the in her book proposal for Made from Scratch, she initially titled it "the Renter's Homestead" and it had a green logo.
So Jenna, you better be careful. This precarious situation is your own doing. You can't take advantage of other people without having it affect you. It's Karma, Darling!
-E.
I've been wondering about her big supporters. Do you think Mother Earth News knows about her shenanigans? What about her other sponsors? How many freelance writing jobs is she going to loose as word spreads of her bad business practices? Assuming she actually has any writing jobs.And I use writing in only the loosest sense. A chimp with a typewriter could do a better job
DeleteLose, not loose.
DeleteE - that would be a harsh reality check. Wow.
DeleteI write orders at work for the books we stock, when the spring 2014 Timber Press / Storey catalog gets here I will be very curious to see if her titles are still featured.
~ A
E - how did you slip through the Cold Antler Farm comment ban! ;) I'm tempted to start commenting again...but why bother, she can read it here. now she wants old spots, gee go figure.
DeleteShe IS making Storey look bad and I'm glad they're aware of it. Every time she harps about how her royalties are "nothing" I wince because it sounds so ungrateful--the only reason she's anybody is because of her book deals. Not that a royalty check for some farm memoirs is going to pay the bills, but she never expresses any kind of gratefulness for her opportunities. Sad thing is, even getting dropped by Storey wouldn't put the brakes on her crazy train--she'll just spin a tale about how she didn't need them anyway and use the occasion to drum up even more donations.
DeleteI certainly do not purchase Storey published books any longer (which sucks for their business and especially employees) due to this shining example of a completely uncredible source of information writing how to books (the chicken one) and bs rose smelling lies about their life.
DeleteYes...last time I checked, the whole point of having a well was to NOT have a water bill. Maybe she had to buy a new pump or the old one (like everything else on her place) keeps breaking? Or maybe by "well" she means "municipal water that comes out of pipes in the ground so I will call it a well"?
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't pay for water and if there was a need to well repair shed run straight to her blog and ask someone else to pay for it.
DeleteAmazing... She gets a well written, polite, yet thoughtful comment about her business plan and workshops etc... And she responds first off with this snarky remark....
ReplyDelete"D, thanks for you comment. I would appreciate being a little more open about who you are though, as your comment is only linked back to a letter. I don't know if you are a 13 year old girl or in a nursing home after a lifetime of farming in Idaho"
Ah yeah. 13 year olds worry about fantasy writers on hobby farms with crappy business plans. So do those oldsters in nursing homes.
No, it's a real leg inmate and polite question and so goes into the whole poor me, I'm too rich to get a job story again. Which makes absolutely no sense, really... Ever hear about part time work, honey? Just to get you up over a hump? Ugh... The comments and how she handles them is very telling.... The blog writings are so so nice and flowery but her behind the scenes snarky responses and venomy snips really ice the cake for me.
This is what I don't get. If she cannot pay her bills, and says she would make less if she got a job, then why does she not cut her expenses to bare bones? That would mean selling most of the animals.
ReplyDeleteShe has two choices - make more or spend less. Any book on finances (and I know she has them - she has posted pictures of them) would tell you that. Why not reduce her stock of animals until she gets caught up financially, then, when she is in a more comfortable place, add them back as she can afford them? She mentioned reading, "The Complete Tightwad Gazette". I would recommend she read it again, and take Mrs. Dacyczyn's advice.
There is also a service called Consumer Credit Counseling which is offered at no charge. They would probably give her advice she doesn't want to hear though.
I think there are Princes in Nigeria who could take a lesson from her. In fact, maybe that should be her next workshop, "The Art of the Scam 101." I'm sure she wouldn't want to stop at one workshop, because it's something in which she truly has experience. I could come up with a whole curriculum, given a few hours like: "The Art of the Scam 102, How stories of cute, cuddly, dead baby animals can wring a few extra dollars out of donors, and make them feel good about it."
ReplyDeletePrinces in Nigeria - Tooooo funny. Unfortunately the rest is also tooo true.
DeleteAnd what is a sewage bill?
ReplyDeleteDon't forget, it's vitally important to the modern homesteader to pay for tae kwon do lessons. How many cloaks has she sold, er, actually delivered? I know she said she sold 8 of them, so I'm guessing there are 8 people that are looking for their money back.
I have to pay a sewage bill where I live, it's $75 three times a year. I don't have my own septic tank on my property so I think that's why I pay a sewage bill. Still, it can't be so much to break the bank!
DeleteShe certainly doesn't have a sewage bill where she lives. She is a long way from in town services.
DeleteWater and sewer bills are usually together. The sewage bill is the fee for taking away the waste water like washing machine, dishwasher, bath, toilet etc.
DeleteJenna lives out in the country. She has no well, water or sewage bill.
DeleteIt's possible she has a sewage bill (though the well comment confuses me....).
DeleteWe have our own well, but are connected to the municipal sewer line. It's a flat $80 per quarter, billed four times per year. The arrangement seems kind of rare, but we live right on the border between "city" and "village". i thunk its probably one of the most cost effective setups, since we don't need to maintain a septic field. We know she has a well, since she posted pics of it when she drove her truck into it a year or so ago.
Definitely doesn't line up.....
I can assure you there is no municipal sewer hookup where she lives. Wasn't she talking about having her septic tank pumped at one point?
DeleteI was going to comment, but then I realized it wouldn't do any good. Insane people don't listen to reason.
ReplyDeleteThere is no well bill, there is no sewage bill. She has her own well and own septic tank. That is all public knowledge via her land/lot tax ID.
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't want to be out of debt. People who do and are commuted to be, lay a plan and stick to it no matter what. They don't make excuses why they need to buy needless consumer goods.
ReplyDeleteWOW pissing off you publisher. That's really bad. That kind of news get around the pub world in short order and will make other pubs think twice about signing with her.
ReplyDeleteTotally self destructive behavior.
What struck me was her statement about how getting a loan to buy truck was in her "past life." Many, many people on her blog, myself included, tried to steer her away from buying that truck and, instead, FIXING the paid-for Subaru she already had in-hand instead. No matter what the Subaru needed, fixing it would have been cheaper in the long run than buying a vehicle and starting to make payments with interest all over again. But, again, she saw herself as a scrappy farmer, driving a truck, so she went into debt and gave away her paid-for vehicle. It wasn't a "past life" mistake, either, it was within a year or so of being on the property she is now. She was already a grown-up with money problems at that point, and she only made it worse.
ReplyDeleteJenna, honey you are not the only single woman living on a farm paying for everything yourself. Many of us do it And with kids in school.
ReplyDeleteYou are not special in that regard.
What it takes is commitment and diligence and self sacrifice. None of which you have.
I have my farm, my animals, my homesteading life, but what I don't have is debt, other than my mortgage. I also don't have animals that can't feed me. That's my "right now" rule.
It can be done with a plan.
I contacted Mother Earth over a year ago. What put it over the top was her participation in their fair, like Joel Salatin, and other sincere, experts in their fields.
ReplyDeleteI'm always thinking of contacting Storey. I own many of their educational books, and am surprised that a publisher so respected in a country life and agriculture would allow such a person to "teach" others about farming.
When reading about her farming debacles, I can't help but think "It tells you how to do this right in a Storey book, why doesn't she just read one?" Or why don't they giver her some?
I think being in the same lineup with Joel went to her head. Yes, Joel probably makes just as much (if not more) from speaking these days than he does farming, but the difference between them is that he paid his dues for years before he became a high-profile farmer. My parents visited Polyface in 1996, and even though he'd already written several books by then he was still plugging away at the broilers and perfecting his buying clubs. I think Jenna looked at him next to her, figured being a "word farmer" sounded like a pretty sweet gig, and totally missed the part where you have to put in years of hard work before you can really call yourself an expert.
DeleteThe fact that Jenna was a keynote speaker among with Joel Salatin and Temple Grandin that year made me cancel my Mother Earth News subscription and I wrote them a lengthy letter. They got back to me, apologized and said they'd look into her blog, qualifications and treatment of livestock. It was handwritten on Mother Earth News stationary, so I think they took it pretty seriously.
Delete-Kris
Kris, thank you for telling us that. I contacted them around that time also and let them know that I was cancelling my subscription because of her. I told them that if they felt she was an expert in anything it proved to me that I could not trust them for any of the information they shared.
DeleteValerie
If you read Joel's website and watch some of the videos you can see he has a lot going on. He's not just an author. Somewhere, in something her wrote it said they (polyface) had reached the million dollar mark. That doesn't happen by accident it takes hard work and a lot of it.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find interesting is if you look back towards the beginning of CAF she had a great deal of admiration for Gene Logsdon and Wendell Berry and wanted to emulate them, Joel came later. What is completely lost on dear JW is that these men run working farms that are their primary job even if the author/speaker money is equal to or better than the farm money. They are farmers first and foremost and authors second. JW doesn't want that. Too much work. She wants to be an author that pretends to be a farmer. And that won't work for long. No authenticity to it. No BTDT to write about.
I am very happy to hear that the publishers are getting feedback on their false prophet, so to speak. If she had just simply put her animals first, kept enough to do it right and earned money without cheating people, her life would be very different.
ReplyDeleteamen!
DeleteIt says a lot that at least three of us here, who don't know each other, read her blog, subscribe to a magazine, and cared enough to take our time to contact them about the self-promotion without bona fides. Clearly, people who know anything about farming can see that this is not "farming."
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is...I'm not a farmer. I used to dream about having my own homestead and have done quite a bit of research about it. I have also talked to many people who are or were farmers. In fact, my dearest friend and her husband are farmers (who by the way, work full-time off the farm) and my father's family had a dairy farm. I was raised in the country surrounded by farms, but didn't live on one. In the last few years after visiting farms, and much thought and prayer, I realized that it was more hard work than I really had the time or desire for. I also realized that raising livestock was a heavy responsibility and took much devotion. I know myself rather well and knew I couldn't handle the responsibility. I needed to concentrate more on being a single mother and raising wonderful people instead of following a dream that I might not even like in the end. I think I made the right choice.
DeleteAll that to say...even though I am not a farmer, I didn't need to be one to realize when someone was not what they claimed to be. Being a farmer and an expert is not something she can honestly claim. It wasn't hard for me to figure that out by just reading her posts and her comments. She usually always gives herself away if you read carefully what she has to say. Also, most people I would consider experts have put in many years of learning and experience to have earned that designation. JW usually becomes an expert in three months or less.
Valerie
Make that 4 Anon7:
DeleteI am so very thankful to have found this blog - I thought I was the only person who was hoodwinked by Cold Antler Farm. Jenna's blog has gone from one of inspiration to plain money grubbing, snake oil salesmanship.
ReplyDeleteI am in shock she asked people to come to her farm to do the chores and also rent a hotel or campsite and buy their own food.
I've yet to see any reason she can't get a part time job to ease the strain of her life, or a ROOMMATE to help pay the mortgage.
I'm so thankful to have found Meredith's blog!
In my frustration I also sent an email to Storey publishing expressing my displeasure at the poor ethical business practices and animal care described at Cold Antler Farm.
Anon 9:40- I admire your being able to make tough choices- and to be raising wonderful people, there really is no more important job. I have livestock, and to do it right takes a lot of dedication, and it is not easy- for anyone- which is one reason I disliked her selling it to everyone, because not everyone can or would want to for any number of reasons!
ReplyDelete"I am ALWAYS working, always trying, always have money coming in and going out. Right now it's tough but I have two book checks coming and some ad deals in the ether and I'll catch up just in time to fall a little more behind. Thus, farming. I may be farming words, ads, stories, and classes but I am making a living off my land through a VERY diversified crop in a new landscape of technology, publishing, agri-tourism, and inspiration. It isn't traditional, but it is what I do. And I'll keep doing it."
ReplyDeleteIs she joking? Is this the script for an SNL skit?
And, just like magic....POOF! She makes the snarky reply to D's comment disappear (along with D's comment itself). But you know what? She can't disappear the comments here, and that's probably killing her.
ReplyDeleteWow, maybe she actually took a step back and looked at how she was coming across. If so, I applaud this move towards self-awareness. Maybe it's a good sign.
ReplyDeleteWow, I was hoping to find a new blog to follow the adventures of a fellow farmer, but instead I find someone seemingly obsessed with Jenna Woginrich. I think you do more to advertise for her than she does! All that negativity must get exhausting.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about either of you or the rivalry, but God forbid anyone tries something new and makes mistakes. Judge not lest ye be judged should certainly be gospel, especially when it comes to predation on backyard chickens. It's happened to all of us, apparently even you according to your 2012 blog entry (A local Craigs List find...meet "Roger"...as his former family called him.
Once on my property chickens become nameless. With all the predators in the area the less emotionally invested in the chickens the better. Not sure being referred to anonymously as hens or roosters would lessen the impact of one getting killed, but its been my long standing philosphy with foster dogs (their breed is their "name" while hanging at my place) so I'm going to give it a try.)
Or is that taken out of context? Perhaps some of Ms. Woginrich's blogs are also taken out of context.
I always thought this community was here to support each other. Sadly it seems, no.
If you're looking for the Cold Antler Fan Club, you're on the wrong blog. This is the place for folks who have been scammed out of their money for products that were never delivered (wool CSA, webinars, etc.), ignored and left without thanks for donations, and been vilified and attacked for trying to offer helpful advice to Jenna. It's hard to take those things out of context.
DeleteYou didn't just come here today looking for a new blog to follow. You came here to troll, you're probably a Clan member. At least one a week pops up. If you want to diminish the comments on this blog, quit trolling. We'd lose interest if Jenna walked the walk, and her rabid fans quit attacking anyone who doesn't buy her fantasies.
DeleteWow, you sure figured me out…WTH is a CLAN member?
ReplyDeleteThat's funny, you can go back to 2012 for a quote to make Meredith look bad, but you don't know what Jenna's Clan is?
DeleteThe Clan? Let's meet at Stone mountain in our JW ponchos and burn a chicken on the front lawn of the suburbanite poodles?
DeleteCan I ask you how many chicks you've lost to predation IN your house? If it's on par with Jenna, well, let's just say you'd be more comfortable with the type of "farming" that happens at CAF than here.
ReplyDeleteI never donated to her, don't care about her fantasies, but do care about people lying to others on a grand scale, like a pied piper leading them in to some faux-homespun desperation money magic machine.
Some of us were raised to attend to our responsibilities, and know that animals come first. If you're comfortable with someone who lets sheep lie dead or dying in the field when the shearer comes, suddenly unable to count because they're in a hurry to get to some event, well CAF is for you. I hope you don't condone such things. They're not mistakes. If you want more, we can create a long list of similar examples. If you want to share your knowledge and learn from others, we'd be more than happy to welcome you.
Anon 4:01 methinks something stinks in Denmark--- you try pretty dismally, I will add, to quote the bible, and then when you are caught out as the JF you are, you then use the term WTH...which no true God fearing person would use.. So, BE GONE JENNA, OR JENNA FAN. Trolls please exit stage left.
ReplyDeleteNow now, all people and comments are welcome.
DeleteI kinda thought that way too.
DeleteThanks Meredith. I'd hate to see this blog go the way CAF did as far comments are concerned and there certainly is no need for name calling. I found it very hurtful to be called a troll over there just because I had a difference of opinion or to be told I was just "jealous"
DeleteWhy can't Jenna just come in here and explain herself? It seems that many have either been ripped off or are outraged with the treatment of her animals. Google CAF and people will get this blog, letters are going to her publishers, neighbor's like Katz are shunning her craziness and her internet reputation is sinking lower and lower each week. I mean if Gov Christie can do it maybe you can Jenna? Most of the people on this blog were your supporters and feel that you are not behaving in an ethical way either as a "farmer" or a "writer" who is giving both of those professions a bad rap. I like that Meredith extends freedom on her blog and that should extend to you too. What do you have to loose? Is it so hard to be humble and admit that you have made many mistakes and devise a plan of some sort of GIVING BACK as opposed to incessant TAKING. Talk to us.
DeleteI wish she would. I think if she did most everyone, if not all, would forgive her and help her start over. Even one of her idol's Jon Katz is trying to reach out to her- his blog post http://www.bedlamfarm.com/2014/01/05/what-is-safety-fear-and-the-meaningful-life-when-truth-snuffs-fear/
Deleteis his message to her. The last sentence of the post is " In truth, there is so much power, there is so much comfort, and here is another thing I learned on my journey: truth squelches fear like a big bucket of water on a smoldering match." He's begging her to tell the truth and come clean.
Her atrocities are beyond forgiveness.
DeleteWishful thinking. She has her amen charlies who will come to her defense--check out the latest comment she let through on her pig post. I'm going to have a good laugh if the person who wondered what her pigs look like as adults was asking in all innocence only to have a Clan fan jump down her throat.
DeleteAll this energy and effort toward one silly girl. Likening her to farming advice is like likening music or fashion advice to Miley Cyrus. How about the atrocities that go on in big farms on a massive scale that are hushed up by "ag gag" laws. I GUARANTEE that the atrocities that go on in these places are far worse than a little girl playing farm. Why aren't we spending our energy on that? Jenna is pop culture. Devoting blog time to her exploits at CAF is like devoting precious time to TMZ. Yeah its fun to read/watch, but as substantive as a rice cake. It's not her fault she found the formula that works for publicity.
DeleteI've never had a chicken IN my house, except to doctor them, and even that was only in the mud room sink.
ReplyDeleteAnon 5:26 you're pretty funny. You've tried pretty dismally to quote Hamlet and then display none to impressive sleuthing skills. Not a Jesus Freak. Is that what JF means? If I was god fearing I wouldn't be participating in this. In fact, I actually don't believe in god, but most people recognize that idiom and what it's getting at.
No, I'm just a small time 3-generation farmer trying to learn and appreciate anyone's experiences. As my horse trainer says, look at what those around you and do the opposite.
I've read some of Jenna's blogs. Very entertaining, but I don't know anything about dead sheep. Must have been prior to December 2013 when I stumbled upon CAF. I haven't gleaned much by way of instruction from her blogs as I don't find them too full of instruction.
I've also read Salatin's books. He's been turned into animal services as well for inhumane practices, but the reports are usually out of ignorance of what farming is really like. I'm certainly not saying you guys are ignorant, just that sometimes things get misstated. But again, I don't know. It seems like some of you were there, so I'll have to take your word for it.
I guess what strikes me about this blog is that basically all I've read is you all trolling the CAF page and carping about it. Is it your agenda to ruin this girl? If you want to lose interest in her, then stop reading her and talking about her. It seems like a terrible waste of time, especially if you don't find her that important. Anyone with a bit of sense is going to figure out she's no expert on anything.
You've got a 20-something girl making mistakes. Thank god (no not god as I don't believe in him)…thank my age that I didn't make my 20-year old mistakes during a time when I didn't have better sense not to blog about it and a huge public forum for people to criticize me through.
Apparently publishing companies are making money off her, why? Because people who don't know better are buying the books and buying the fantasy. Is that Jenna's fault or is it the media and the insane marketing of the fantasy hobby farm life?
I've enjoyed her blogs, just as I've enjoyed some of Meredith's that aren't Jenna related and the inspiration and ideas I get from them…and then I put on my muck boots, head out into 0 degree weather and tend to the animals and the reality of farm life. A little bit of the fantasy makes it just a bit easier.
That being said, does anyone have some advice on using the deep litter method in the chicken coop, or whether salt is safe to use to melt some of the ice around the horse feeder?
I use the deep litter method in my coop and wouldn't have it any other way. I do a total clean-out of the chicken house every 8 weeks or so in the winter (depending on how nasty the weather has or hasn't been) and about every 6 weeks in the summer. The stuff I clean out gets carted to the compost pile (though the hens usually just spread it all around because they LOVE rooting in the compost). The deep litter method is advantageous in the winter because it generates a little heat and keeps the hen house warmer. In the summer, things can get pretty gross if you're not careful, so I typically skim off the top few inches every week and add a fresh layer in between total clean-outs.
DeleteThank you, I appreciate it. This is the first year I've tried it and I think the coop has been a lot warmer. I haven't had to put in a heat lamp and I haven't had the comb frostbite I had last year. I wasn't sure whether to just keep adding shavings or to clean it out, but it sounds like I can wait a few more weeks.
DeleteI use a combo of straw and shavings mainly because shavings can get pricey. We don't have the weather extremes you all so it lasts most of the winter. Gets cleaned out when the weather warms and used in garden walks, side dressing for crops or in the compost.
DeleteWe've also used shavings from the stock trailer when show season was over the topped with straw. The girls love digging in it.
Can't remember where I read it but one blog comment suggested using fireplace or stove ash around troughs and on paths for better footing. Havent tried it, we don't get snow and ice.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHmm, here's what I bet happened over the weekend:
ReplyDelete1. People post here with inside information on the goings-on at Storey.
2. Jenna finds out, since we know she reads this blog.
3. She freaks out, rightfully so, because it seems there are some impending consequences to her actions.
4. She takes to Clan Cold Antler and writes a blog post about the horrible people over here saying horrible things about her. Perhaps she even includes the information about Storey, spinning it to make it sound like people are out to get her.
5. Instead of addressing any of these issues herself, she keeps a low profile, deletes her own nasty comment in response to an honest question, and waits for her fans to sally forth and bring the heat over here.
6. ...
7. Profit! (Seriously, the donations are probably rolling in over there at the Clan, as they always do when she puts on the poor me routine.)
X (Isn't that the symbol of a wrong answer from Family Feud?)
DeleteWhat if I'm really just a regular person that stumbled onto these blogs and into this maelstrom?
I so SO SO SO wish people with an interest in animal welfare would pay more attention to bad laws and mass atrocities.
That's nice, and I do think the animal welfare issues are important, but what I think is more important is her unethical business practices and the fact that national publishers with prior good records are promoting her as some kind of homesteading or farming expert when she clearly is not and as a result her extremely financially precarious lifestyle is essentially being supported by the donations of kind-hearted folks who receive no thanks for their efforts. I also find it disturbing that she routinely offers expensive programs, clubs, CSAs, etc., doesn't end up delivering the product she was selling, and then refuses to issue refunds. The unethical animal treatment and exploitation that has occurred on her watch is, to me, just more evidence that she is pulling the wool over a lot of eyes that aren't educated enough to know better. So I congratulate you on your animal welfare activism (seriously, I think it's good that you care), but the answer here isn't for us all to move on to bigger causes.
ReplyDeleteNo, really it is for all of us to move on, because judging from Jenna's own words, her "business" isn't doing that well.
DeleteI just did a random google search of farm workshops. There are hundreds, all asking for a fee. I looked around my area and found many. Cheese, soap, etc. Just sharing information. How is that different than what is going on here?
Unethical business practices? Compared to what goes on on a bigger scale? I applaud you for towing the line, but again, why focus on this girl rather than what really goes on in bigger facilities?
It's kind of amusing that you come in here and say it's for "us" to move on when you clearly don't care. The only difference between you and one of her die-hard defenders is a pronoun change--"we" need to move on instead of "you" people need to move on. Plus given your persistence I'm beginning to think that you are indeed here for the very reason I suspected at first, which is to leap to her defense. You're just using a different tack than most of the others who've come around. That's okay, because you're really not going to change any minds here, but you're welcome to keep trying. As Meredith said, all comments are welcome.
DeleteHow do you think I don't care? I have no agenda here and it's really sad that some of you try to give me one.
DeleteOh come now, let's not be coy. You can say whatever you like, but there are only two reasons for you to still be posting here: either you do indeed have a personal investment (positive or negative) in this situation *or* you're just getting off on trolling. It doesn't really matter what your agenda is, but let's call a spade a spade.
DeleteCoy? Always love that word. No, not being coy. I'm really interested in the information and the dialogue. Isn't that the purpose of your blog? What "spade" is that?
DeleteLOL! Well, it looks like you just get off on trolling. Well done. ;)
DeleteI don't know what trolling is. My attempts at seeking intelligent discussion are obviously wasted. Thank you for letting me know.
DeleteDo you really want to know "why,?" Or do you just want us to allow current practices to continue at CAF, and just keep this little secret away from the fawning, desperate for belonging, beneficent public? Kind of like, just don't think about what's in the hot dogs. or "what about the child soldiers?"
ReplyDeleteIf it's the former, we can explain again, with a list of occurrences. .
Sure, give me a list of occurrences. I don't know much else but the recent blog entries. I'm interested.
ReplyDeleteMomma Deb was attacked for asking to see a picture of the damn pigs, are the Clan so paranoid and crazy that every question gets hyper inflated into a personal attack. What kind of farmer offers repeated pig shares but no information about the damn pigs. This is just damn ridicilous
ReplyDeleteYes, they are that paranoid and crazy. But I bet you dollars to donuts that she's the one stirring them up behind closed doors over there--it fits her passive-aggressive modus operandi.
DeleteAgain, I don't know Jenna. And now I'm totally convinced that you all are totally paranoid. So said because you have a beautiful website and an engaged community. But just as what's going on nationally, a bunch of loud mouths making waves over issues that aren't really the issue. And unfortunately, while you all waste time on CAF, countless animals will suffer and die because you focused on the wrong enemy. So, while you're looking at CAF, also look at TMZ, because that is on par with the fight you're fighting.
DeleteThe animosity against Jenna is completely her doing. I can't believe you've carefully read the archives here without noticing dozens of comments saying how much they used to love reading Cold Antler. Many people here have contributed to Jenna in many ways. Some of them have paid hundreds of dollars for products that were never delivered, and no refunds given. Some here have been to her workshops, some live in her area, we've had a commenter who went to college with her. Some people have simply given money out of kindness and were never offered two words in return "thank you." The people here are like the friends or family of someone as they watch that person go into a mental and physical decline, and feel helpless to do anything about it. I think it's healthy to vent about it, it certainly is understandable.
DeleteYou won't find any evidence of this on CAF because Jenna has a habit of deleting anything she doesn't like. Some of the posts where she reported things she's done, and the comments exploded with complaints or even just advice she didn't like, those have been deleted. Her blog has slowly devolved from a friendly place where there are honest discussions of homesteading to an advertisement for contributions. I don't believe anyone here wants to see her fail and lose everything, but I think everyone fears it. If you believe anyone here is paranoid, too bad you can't see the paranoia Jenna has exhibited, you can't see it because she's deleted it.
If you are truly who you say you are, I sincerely apologize, but I have to say, I'm not convinced yet. If you seek to understand what's going on here, you would be better off observing and not attacking. I totally don't understand the TMZ comment.
Imagine a hard working guy milking as a day job and coming home to his little scrappy homestead where he and his partner are barely able to make the mortgage. And they start reading Cold Antler in the good years, and are inspired, maybe send her a few bucks, and then...devolution into what it is today. Jenna earns a lot of animosity because she comes off as entitled and especially classist. A part-time job is beneath her lifestyle needs, and she characterizes people who do that as something other than a wolfkin braveheart like herself. People feel dissed, and betrayed by buying into her early hope, her fabulous optimism, her words of soaring inspiration.
DeleteUnfairly perhaps, we had expectations that she would do what working people do to save the farm, when the going got tough, as we knew it would. We, again unfairly, expected that she would write about it eloquently and reflect our own struggles and inspire us. We were shocked that she didn't appreciate the help that many experienced farmers tried to offer her on the blog. When her friends publicly tried to reach out. The venting here is part disappointment. Part betrayal. Part anger at ourselves for believing in it just a little bit.
And when we tried to help, we were blocked. We watched as animals died, or kept inadequately or disposed of when boring. It was a scandal and we were outraged. What you read here is anger at poor husbandry, not a pop culture attack.
Finally, I think, some of us, could have gotten by the tantrums, the big fails, the disrespect to working people, the romanticist acquisition of parts of mountain culture, including embarrassing verbal flourishes in print like "son", but not the profound work ethics of same people...because hey, we were all young and stupid once, and she is at least brave enough to say all that crap out loud. But in a most horrifying way, she is losing it in slow motion, and you are reading here concern for someone we cared about deeply once, because if we didn't we wouldn't need to vent on this blog. So 1 part betrayal, 1 part anger at the disrespect, 1 part anger at animal abuse and 1 part wild fear that she is slowly going crazy in front of us and there is nothing to do but watch the wreck. Not all of us feel all these things, but that is what I read into a lot of the comments.
My wish for Jenna, with all those words and brilliance and her ability with her writing to cause people to stop reading and stare off into space, and dream a bit and then borrow her courage...my wish for Jenna is that she take a year off, go private, sell the animals, slow down, find herself, travel the world, write a novel, change things up, get some really good therapy, and figure out what is going wrong. And then come back, healed up.
In the meantime, this blog serves as a really important outlet. I find it disturbing when someone screams for help in the form of money, but when people try to offer their own experience, strength and hope to her, they are labeled as concern trolls, blocked, deleted. This blog, which no one has to read, helps people realize that their reactions are not off-base.
RedHorse and Anon 9:22 said it more perfectly than I ever could. I feel exactly the same way they do.
DeleteI'm seriously considering buying a clan membership just so I can report back to y'all here. And the best thing is...she would have to take my money, because it's money, and she would have no clue which follower I was. On the other hand, though, that's a lot of cash, and I'm not sure I could justify forking it over.
ReplyDeleteYup, just like buying the latest Miley Cyrus album. Fork it over...
DeleteMaybe I'll start a Kickstarter to raise the $65 for a Clan membership. :P
DeleteI don't think there is a cold antler clan blog.
DeleteBut she did buy tires with the first contributions.
DeleteDon't do it. Just tuck your money back into your wallet and congratulate yourself on being wise. Thousands of other people on blogs, and all the friends you know personally will probably tell you their thoughts on spirituality and relationships and let you see the insides of their houses FOR FREE lol.
DeleteHey, I have an idea. Let's all make our homesteads public! All practices totally open to comment. What do you all think?
ReplyDeleteJenna owes me no explanation, she's never robbed me of a dime. my posts concerning cold antler farm exist as deflected comments to posts on a public blog whose author prefers I not voice my difference of opinion comments on. so I vent here. nothing I say will cause her to succeed or fail, takes better or worse care of her animals, or deliver services and products to those who have paid for them...or not.
ReplyDeletewrite a blog? expect comments, especially from those passionate about the subject. run a business? expect reviews of products and services rendered (or not).
I'm with you 100 percent, Meredith. I don't expect change, either, but your blog has, at least, convinced me I am not the only one who sees "the emperor's new clothes" for what they really are.
DeleteCan someone tell me what this means? It is from her 8/25/13 post entitled, "I'm there". She described how her piglets ran away and how she chased them down and put them back in their electric enclosure.
ReplyDelete"It took another half hour but I grabbed an old two-mile plug in charger and set it up to replace the ten-mile charger that was a deadbeat. With the ground cleared around it (note to self, do not bite nails for a few days or you may end up with ringworm) I knew the charge was good. I waited until a pink nose touched it and I heard a squeal of pain that brought nothing but a smile to my face. I ran off to get the pigs their water and poured some of it right on the grounding rod just for spite."
Does this mean she purposely shocked them?
It means exactly what you think it means. She punished the pigs with electric shock because they broke through the fence and caused trouble. When they squealed in pain, it brought a smile to her face. No understanding that it was her job to make a pig-proof fence, or take responsibility for the fence being broken. It is the pigs job to try to break out.
DeleteThis is what real farmers do. When the pigs break out, roll up a newspaper good and tight and hit yourself over the head for not fixing the fence.
I must have missed that blog post and reading that quote just turned my stomach. I knew she was neglectful but didn't realize she was so actively, intentionally cruel. That kind of behavior towards animals comes from a place where you are under the misconception that they think and behave like humans (and so can be "taught a lesson") when they really don't. Like rubbing a dog's nose in his mess when you discover it hours later--the dog doesn't remember, doesn't make the connection, and doesn't understand why you're angry and shoving his face into the ground. At least the pigs' suffering is over now.
DeleteAh....but she is buying more.
DeleteNo, it doesn't mean she purposely shocked them. It means she got her fence working properly again and the pig tested it and got shocked.
DeleteYou absolutely want an electric fence to work and reliably produce a shock.strong enough the won't want to test it again. to me this reads as sadistic though...enjoying pain out of spite rather than accepting the shocks pain as purpose is disgusting.
Deletelooking at the post more there's possibly a reason the pigs tested a previously working fence. she says heard them after giving Merlin fresh water, she then gives the pigs their water once caught. pigs do not sweat and are very susceptible to heat. they have no natural mechanism to cool themselves...except their brains. they seek shade and will create or use swallows to lower their body temperature. access to fresh cool water is a no brainer. Pigs can see, hear, and smell water. Perhaps giving them water before freshening her horses would have prevented this outing?
perhaps daily fence checks to make sure the electric wire was not buried in mud and shit would have kept the voltage up? I'm not sure she knows how to properly install or use electric fencing based on the frequency of animals on the wrong side of the fence.
as we all know farming is a learning experience. what works for you, your animals, your property differ but education is KEY.
educate yourself or victimize yourself (im the most abused animal on the farm? come on now).
managing animals out of spite is like punishing a child out of anger. yes, a lesson needs to be learned either way, but ones frame of mind has as much to do with it as the punishment itself.
Oh do pigs love a wet swallow....
Deletethat would be wallow!
It means she wants to strengthen the ground, so their shock will be worse, end result in that she wants them to pay for getting out. Did you all see the spit hole she had them in (thankfully their misery is over now that she slaughtered them). I can't blame them for trying to get out- just like every other animal does at her place.
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ReplyDeleteDon't overreact, now. Getting shocked by an electric fence isn't "suffering". I've been shocked many times, and I wasn't scarred for life. She poured water on the grounding rod so it would actually make a ground. When the soil is dry, the ground isn't very good and sometimes the fence will fail because of it.
ReplyDeleteI can understand her feelings there, because sometimes animals get out because the electric fence fails, even when you've done everything you can do. When we get bad droughts, my fence stops working and short of pouring buckets of water on the grounding rod, there's not much I can do about it.
Don't get so zealous over attacking her that you read too much into things.
But the fence was working fine. She said when the pig's nose touched it, it let out a squeal of pain. Then she went to to say that it made her smile. Finally, she said she poured water on the grounding rod out of spite.
DeleteIt sure seems to me she enjoyed the pig's pain, and made an attempt to produce more.
Regarding the fence, it sounds like she was just doing what you are supposed to do to get it to work. Maybe she enjoyed it too much, or perhaps she was just overjoyed at something she did actually working properly, but it wasn't torture.
DeleteAnon 11:11, did you see the part where she said the 10-mile charger was a deadbeat? That means it wasn't working. Or if it was working, it wasn't producing a high enough charge to be effective. The pigs squeal was probably part pain, but mostly surprise. Getting shocked isn't pleasant, but it certainly isn't torture. And the shock only lasts a split second.
DeleteAnd I've smiled before when my naughty goats do everything in their power to outsmart my electric fence and finally fail. It doesn't mean we're sadists, it means we're happy to have won the battle.
She was pouring more water on to make sure it had a good ground, not to specifically inflict more pain.
Thank you to those who explained how the fence works. I had no idea - until now. THAT is the type of discussion and knowledge being passed on that I miss. Hopefully we can continue the intelligent sharing of thoughts and ideas here...thanks to Meredith.
ReplyDeleteMeredith's wise comments on the other blog made me want to meander over here to see what she was all about. I am glad I did. I started reading this blog a couple of years ago and learned many things from her, too. Thank you, Meredith, for putting up with me and my crazy questions. I appreciate your patience!
Valerie
I'm with everyone else on the comment about the pigs. They do need to know the fence will shock them so they will stop testing it and trying to escape. And pigs are notorious for escaping wherever they are, whether it's a perfect pen or a s#ithole. But I am always concerned about it when Jenna appears to be quite gleeful about butchering her animals, saying things like, "TODAY I GOT TO WATCH A CHICKEN DIE!!" and then posting graphic images. Listen, we butcher here, too, but it's never gleeful and I hate to do it. But then again, I don't get a thrill from proving how different from the "otherkin" I am. That's just a distinction that's lost on me.
ReplyDeleteHotFlashHomestead - I really enjoy your posts and replies. You appear to be the voice of reason and your posts show maturity and good common sense.
DeleteThanks Anon 1:22!
DeleteI read several blogs,mostly homesteading/farming related, some that I've followed for years and I have never seen any writer cause so much anger and hurt as Jenna does. That is not a coincidence, where there's smoke, there's fire. Bottom line though, nothing is going to change, Jenna has proven over and over she is perfectly happy with the things are, only time will tell how this story will end.
ReplyDeleteThank you for explaining the electric fence - I originally posted the question. I am not a farmer and honestly do not know how they work. I thank you all for the explanation and apologize if I read something into it that wasn't there.
ReplyDeleteI know most of us miss the good ole days when CAF blog was about homesteading Can anyone recommend other blogs they're reading that are informative and inspiring? A google search didn't come up with much :-(
ReplyDeleteI like the Sugar Mountain blog. Sometimes his political posts aren't to my taste, but they are easy to skip. This guy is the real deal. He puts in a lot of info into the comments section when people ask questions, and I can attest to the fact that his pastured pork is delicious. Lots of detailed information on animal husbandry and other stuff.
ReplyDeletehttp://sugarmtnfarm.com/home/blog/
Electric fences have to be "hot" to work. You need to make sure they work and work well- most chargers have a snapping sound so that you do know they are working. Done right electric fence is very handy, but there is maintenance involved in keeping them.
ReplyDeleteOhio Farm Girl has a great blog. She really knows her stuff and seems to be the real deal. She makes me laugh, and spares no details about the realities of farm life. You should definitely check her out!
ReplyDeleteSecond this. Her blog is great!
DeleteThese are two of my favorite blogs: The first is a rural homesteader in Oregon, the other doing some awesome urban homesteading in Los Angeles:
ReplyDeletehttp://matronofhusbandry.wordpress.com/
http://www.rootsimple.com/
thanks for all the blog tips :-)
DeleteJust looked at Ohio Farm Girl's blog...love it! She's very entertaining and educational, and does not appear to be delusional in the slightest. Thanks for the tip, Anon 2:26. I just found a new morning read!
ReplyDeleteIn related news, it looks like CAF's listing may have been removed from FarmPlate.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.farmplate.com/local-food/farm/cold-antler-farm-jackson-ny
"Access Denied"
DeleteCan you post what it says? Thanks.
DeleteSaw this today, too. Apparently we are not the only ones complaining about CAF:
ReplyDeletehttp://getoffmyinternets.net/forums/design-blogs/cold-antler-farm/
LOL, Jenna's going to say a prayer for you, Meredith. Don't you feel special?
ReplyDeleteRight, complete with a tiny little Meredith doll and pins.
Delete"Jenna's going to say a prayer for you"
DeleteThat would be interesting, since JW is a self proclaimed non-religious person. You should read her blog more carefully, then you'd understand the contradictions and the concerns.
LOL. I'm going to check those blogs, but I'll say I'm thankful to CAF for bringing me to this blog, and those of others who post here! You guys are terrific!
DeleteAs far as a list of the dead and suffering pets/livestock, I'll start with one I couldn't comprehend:
A newly acquired lamb that died after the pony Jasper "played" with it. Hopefully most people know, and if you don't, maybe you'll learn here, that when you get a new animal, especially a young one, you keep it a little separate and quiet until it acclimates somewhat. You don't scare it to death, running for it's (newly taken from it's family) life from a much bigger animal.
Um - what are you guys talking about? The prayer for Meredith thing?
ReplyDeleteShe posted something under the piglet picture post about saying a prayer for Meredith.
DeleteAnd I think Red Beard is Jenna. But "it" spells correctly, so maybe not. Although he/she sure does read all these comments over here, and seems to memorize them apparently. But he says he's done with it...we'll see.
Haha, I love that she said "Please keep blog comments civil, even in my defense," when a) she's been known to post an uncivil blog comments or two herself (now deleted) and b) she's moderating all the comments, so she made a conscious decision to let that comment through in the first place.
ReplyDeleteWow, the butcher shoots the pigs in the head to stun them? That must take real talent, I mean what if they accidentally killed one. You know, when they shot it in the frickin' head! Sounds like these guys are right up Jenna's alley.
ReplyDeleteYou can tell by reading that entry that Jenna is a faithful reader of this blog. Going on at length about how wonderful the forest windbreak and how much bedding they had. How simple it is for anyone to raise pigs. Heck, even someone as clueless as herself can do it! Step right up folks! Get yourself some hogs. Let them hang out in your woods until you are ready to eat them.
As painfully obvious as it was that that blog post was painstakingly tailored to address all the things that are being said over here, I will give her credit for writing a post that had a little bit of the old vibe--a thorough explanation of the process, no overly precious affections (son, darlings, etc.), and even a modest creative flourish at the end. I hope she makes more posts like that.
DeleteI'm by no means an expert on pig slaughter, but I do believe that is the correct way to dispatch them. From my understanding, they need to die by bleeding out to protect the meat, so you stun them then stick them in the neck to bleed out. Stunning them before sticking them I suppose is less traumatic and painful.
DeleteBut yes, her post addresses everything that has been said on this blog and it was a glimpse of the old Jenna. Hopefully it's a start but she has a lot of fences to mend, both literally and figuratively, it will take time, but I sincerely hope she finds her way back!
Yes, that's how you kill hogs. You shoot them in the head and then cut their carotid artery so they bleed out. Are we going to nitpick over every single teensy think she says now? Because commenting on the way the pigs were slaughtered is nitpicking, and if you don't know how pigs are normally killed it just makes this group look bad. I'd really hate to see this group get so radical.
DeleteSince some of us read these blogs to learn, we like the nit picking. It gives good info about why and how things are done. I saw it as a discussion of correct slaughter and butcher methods.
DeleteAgreed. She hired local professional slaughterers, she didn't have Italics kills them after Jasper chased them into the meadow
Delete...windbreak is...
ReplyDeleteSorry, missed that on the proof read.
I agree, even though the post was a response to stuff here, I also saw a glimmer of the old Jenna.
ReplyDeleteSame here. I hope the trend continues.
DeleteI don't see any change. I see Jenna responding to the posts here, that she reads daily. Hoping for acceptance, which will turn to donations. The shelter had one wall. I have BEEN to her her place I have SEEN that shit hole. She can paint it any way she likes. She ought to know that it is illegal to feed meat or offal of any kind to pigs that will go out for public consumption, and since she has already taken money for these pigs, she is breaking the law. Look it up Jenna. Do not be fooled by her desperate attempts to quell the un-rest, to her, she must do what she can, because her living comes from fooling people out of their money. Do not be fooled. When I see her actually proving the goods that she took money for, and not neglecting animals, then I might begin to cut her slack. So far, that has not happened.
ReplyDeleteYou are right - her post today reflected everything said here about the pigs. The escape, electric fence, living conditions and slaughter. I was glad to see her comments about the slaughter were respectful and not flippant like some of her other posts. And yes, she did sound more like the Jenna I used to enjoy reading.
ReplyDeleteNow if only she would make good on the wool CSA...
Well, wool CSA and webinar folks, Jenna posted a comment this morning on the first pig post that said she offered refunds to anyone who preferred that to waiting. One of y'all should email her and see if she will finally make good on that offer. I would be interested to know if she is finally being sincere about giving a refund.
ReplyDeleteHer refund offer was $10 a month, which, according to her, is "all she could afford". At that rate, it would take 2 years for the money to be refunded. Like how she didn't mention that little fact in her comment?
DeleteGeez. Yeah, that was conveniently omitted. I can't imagine offering a monthly refund for something that you had to pay for as a lump sum up front. You should get a full refund, all at one time, period, end of story.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHOW TO DEAL WITH YOUTUBE TROLLS.
ReplyDeleteSo now she's trying to psychologize us. "Because when they see someone doing something awesome, they say 'f*ck, why can't I do something that awesome.'" Right. That's why the CSA members are so angry. It's just awesome to screw your friends. Yes. Jenna seems to be trying to turn over a new leaf, but it's beginning to sound like more justification of actions she shouldn't be proud of, and more denial of the reality that is CAF.
Also, in one of her recent comments, she says she has always been open to people emailing her with suggestions, questions or concerns, I KNOW from personal experience that isn't true. Telling the truth is not slander, and it is good for the person who finally decides not to enable you anymore.
I've been close to a couple of people who have done 12 step programs. One of the steps is to make an honest and complete inventory of all the wrongs you've done to people and to try to make amends. Most people can't completely make amends, but they need to acknowledge the wrongs they've done, and they need to accept it if others don't forgive them for it.
The original Birchthorn post was lacking that long second-to-last paragraph and video. When I saw the original post earlier today, I thought it was pretty good and felt hopeful that she really was trying to turn over a new leaf. But editing to include the video is just a passive-aggressive little jab per usual. It's a shame she tacked that on.
DeleteI was thinking about it earlier today and I don't feel that she needs to make a public apology, since most of her viewing public has no idea what's gone/going on. But she definitely needs to get in touch with people privately--wool CSA, webinars, etc.--and make it right. Talking about refunds in a blog comment doesn't mean anything; being proactive and getting in contact with the individuals in question to directly offer a refund would be meaningful.
She does not need to make any apology, what would be the point? If she is not going to change her ways it is a waste of everyone's time. Her reference to dealing with internet trolls proves beyond a doubt that she is not sorry for anything. Her ego is monumental.
ReplyDeleteHer claiming people are just jealous is the funnies thing I've had in a while. Most of us have nicer homesteads than she. And seeing this fake nicey-nicey crap from her really makes me feel icky all over. It's so fake! If she were truly a nice person there would be no snarky, mean, hateful replies when people ask her questions or try to give her advice. It's not hard to see who she really is.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting the effect this blog has had on Jenna's behavior, isn't it? If she were confident that her actions were above board, then why would she change her behavior just for us? She knows she is not an honorable person, and is back-peddling to try and save face.
ReplyDeleteShe claims Birchthorn is her first work of fiction. Ha! That was good for a chuckle.
Don't care if she apologizes. She's done the damage already, and she can only change what she does in the future. Can you imagine she doesn't even have a reliable source for pigs, seeing as she's raised them (although gotten ahold of them already partly grown, like her turkeys) multiple times? She's not reliable to people or animals.
ReplyDeleteA narcissist doesn't change. As far as jealousy... well none of us would change lives with her, our integrity would bother us too much. But yes, it must be cool to have other people pay for your necessities and indulgences, and be treated like an expert when you seem more a prancing fool. What makes people buy into this? She's the poodle, being stroked and fed tidbits by her attendants, smiling all the way to the bank.
I kinda wondered about that as well. Why not continue to buy your hogs through the same people? Kinda weird.
ReplyDeleteOK, it's game on! One chapter of Bitchthorn every week. We know she doesn't deliver when she's been prepaid, I wonder if she'll have the resolve to do it for free. You'll have to deliver now JW, everybody is watching.
ReplyDeleteOops, the t is too close to the r.
ReplyDeleteLOL indeed...
ReplyDeleteShe doesn't buy pigs from same people as before, for the same reason she buys hay from different sources... I will leave it up to you all to ruminate on why that is :)
ReplyDeleteWell, the first chapter is up. I made it almost through the first chapter before having to retch in the wastebasket. Why am I not surprised her farm wagon is shoddy?
ReplyDeleteKind of reminds me of very bad fan fiction. Can't imagine doing a kickstarter or whatever to try and have it published. The world has enough of this sort of stuff in it and thank goodness, no one has to pay for it.
ReplyDeleteI don't care if her fiction is well-written or to my taste. I have to say that if she follows this out, week after week and then tries to sell the ending as she said, I will be impressed that she followed something through exactly like she said. It isn't begging for money and it uses a skill she has developed (selling words, whether you like her words or not, is something that she has done successfully). Her whole hawk on my arm on my pony thing is like living fan fiction so at least this is an appropriate form (written fiction) that doesn't hurt anyone or animals. Personally, I suspect she won't get enough comments and will drop it in mid-stream, cause that is a Jenna thing. But good on her for trying. Hey Jenna, win lose or fail, go for the discipline of finishing it.
ReplyDeleteI didn't read Birchthorn the first time around and I will skip it this time, but I 100% agree with you that if she does stick with this I will be impressed. Birchthorn is an actual product--she is producing words, a story--and if she can monetize that then more power to her. That's how it should be done, instead of writing loftily about being creative and being a maker and then turning around and begging for donations. I hope she sees it through this time.
DeleteTo clarify, I'm skipping Birchthorn because the subject matter is not my cup of tea--I'm more into non-fiction farm literature. But I'm sure it floats someone's boat.
DeleteIf one has the time between work and all other responsibilities to pursue creativity, who cares if anyone enjoys it. creativity is healthy for the artist within. I think farms fiction is a great niche for Jenna to explore.
ReplyDeleteI had not read the earlier version but I did read part of Chapter One today. I did not care for it. I'm not going to to nitpick the writing, it's not anything I would donate to for a Kickstart project though.
ReplyDeleteThe subject matter of Birchthorn doesn't interest me so I'm skipping it. I too will be impressed if Jenna can stick with it and complete it.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has done a fair bit of writing myself, I will say that much of this is "canned"- meaning the phrases she uses are commonly used to tie together a story line. "crying in the wind" for instance is one of the phrases used very commonly. The story would be *much* better if it was told in third person- about another person, not Jenna being the main character- because it harkens back too much to Jenna's ad hoc fantasy life- back at the house on Colfax Rd. I am happy she is sticking to writing, but I can't read anymore, it is way too writing 101 level for me.
ReplyDeleteJesus! Do you really have nothing better to do with your day than rag on Jenna? It must be really nice in your ivory towers as you sit there and pass judgement on someone you don't even know. Just remember, it's a long, long way to fall.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:32: My response is: Same to you- only replace Jenna with we, who post here :)
ReplyDeleteYes, I came across Meredith's blog through things I had heard on CAF blog. I have to say that as much as I wanted to hate the blog, except for the Jenna bashing, it's a nicely put together piece with some good info. I have had business dealings with Jenna and have had no issues. I just don't understand why people have to hate on others and send out such negative stuff. Isn't there enough crap going on in the world due to politicians w/o us regular folk going at it, toe to toe?
DeleteOh stop with the hate speech. This isn't bashing, this is discussion of ethics and things that have been covered up for too long. Couldn't you see that it was about to die down from lack of interest? Don't come here and stir it up again, or if you do, don't complain about it. We have as much right to discuss what we believe here as Jenna does. At least we don't have a secret Clan site.
DeleteAnon10:01
ReplyDeleteYou're coming to the party a bit late and frankly I personally was moving on to getting my farm ready for spring, but your post made me stop and think, and well it really begs the question of you and the others who have chided us for speaking out about what is happening at CAF...
When you see something wrong do you not speak up?
When you see others harmed or abused do you turn away?
When you know people are being taken advantage of do you not warn others?
I would bet the answer to all those questions is NO, you do do something or say something.
You respond to or report the neighbor who abuses his dog.
You post on Yelp if a business doesn't deliver.
You warn friends and neighbors about a bad experience with an auto mechanic or contractor. You may even attend town meetings commenting about what's going on in your town.
So why or how is this any different?
Animals are being harmed.
People are being cheated.
Money is being stolen.
Would you have us sit by and let it continue so that we don't upset the universe? If you would then that is a sad commentary on a life lived in fear.
Just remember--“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke
And, no I'm not saying JW is evil.
And to all the Jenna fans and "protectors" out there, please know that she only allows comments through to the blog that benefit her. She has not approved comments that she thinks will make her look bad, or let people know the truth about her. She is very manipulative and very selective about what she posts, and what she lets others post. So don't take her blog posts or comments for gospel truth. She's a manipulator.
ReplyDeleteThank you JMS, and the commenter after his/hers. Jennafans, I suggest you spend your time donating to Jenna, she's going to need it.As ye so so shall ye reap. She has ripped people off, ridiculed those with honest helpful suggestions (calling people dicks is really mature), and harmed/killed animals, and stolen money.
ReplyDeleteToday's post seemed to cover almost all of the things mentioned here, coincidence?
ReplyDeleteShe's mucked out a winters goat bedding. Seeing as winter has barely begun, I guess it was last winters goat bedding, or maybe the year before.
I guess her hay isn't so good if the sheep prefer to sleep on it to eating it.
Bring it on JennFans, tell me how mean I am. I shall chuckle in your general direction at your feeble attempts to admonish me.
I hardly know where to begin.
ReplyDeleteJoe...never mentioned him before. Must be new to the fan club.
She mucked out 1-1/2 feet of goat bedding and didn't hit bottom, how deep is it?
She can't trim 8 hooves by herself? Sheesh...try doing 40 ewes. Now that's hard on arms.
Burrs??? I thought she had pasture. Guess now she has weeds. That'll be pleasant come summer.
She's hoping 2 of the ewes are pregnant? Doesn't she have like 6 or 8. No shepherd would stand for such a lousey conception rate and its not the age of the girls it their maintanence. Can't make money or feed yourself if your ewes don't produce. If its a wool farm she wants do like the Aussies and raise wethers.
Hasn't butchered those turkeys. Yuck.
My farmer brain hurts.
Five to seven year old sheep are still plenty fertile and that's still considered a good breeding age. Poor nutrition and worm load is her problem, not 5 year old sheep.
ReplyDeleteI went to a hay and pasture conference yesterday and they said if you improperly store and feed hay (like, feed on the GROUND) up to 50% of the hay is wasted...never even makes it into the animals. If her sheep are laying on the hay, they're clearly not eating it. So all that money is wasted...down the drain.
I've suggested to her before that she get a hay feeder, and she said she was working on it....that was YEARS ago.
You can make a great hayfeeder out of a 55 gallon plastic drum. Just cut nibble holes out of the side with a jigsaw and wire it to a fence. Costs hardly nothing and though it's not super pretty, it really saves on hay!
DeleteFor all the spunky, scrappy, whatever stuff she calls the place, I am surprised that she doesn't do much more make-do stuff with found materials until the money comes in for the nice stuff at the TSC... we do. We have to. And our animals could care less.
It's not her money, so why should she worry about the hay? If she was working at a low paying job, or any job at all for that matter, she would worry about it. Now, if she needs hay, she just starts talking about how scared she is and doesn't know what she is going to do because she can't buy hay.
ReplyDeleteMy question is *why* she can't seem to accomplish *anything* by herself? I have a HUGE amount of mucking to do with my sheep, and I do it alone, and at lambing I do it every day. I do all my sheep treatments alone (and I have many more than she does). I think she is just too freaking lazy to do anything herself. Think about it- has she ever done anything just by herself, other than her bucket brigade that almost kills her every day!! I spent hours and hours the other day working on livestock needs- and not a single other person in sight. And, as to Jasper getting harnessed? I call BS on that, that pony is and has been a yard ornament since the minute Jasper came to her place.
ReplyDeleteIt's pretty sad, considering her book is called One Woman Farm. Ha!
DeleteLOL I had less help with chores when I was 11. I am jealous, though, that I don't have the kind of friends that do my work for me. Maybe it should be called Minion Feed Lot, instead.
DeleteIt is SO ODD that there are never any animal pictures anymore.
ReplyDeleteYes indeed- she has that camera that was given to her...
ReplyDelete"Me and the other speakers at the event all gave our advice in this regard."
ReplyDeleteProfessional writer?
Bad eh? I wonder if they also talked about how to scam people as a fledgling farming operation? Now that would be worth the price of admission ;)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteResponse to OhioFarmGirl's "And that is all I got to say about that."
ReplyDeleteThat is such a story of woe, and fiction. I guess we're the townfolk. Trouble is, we aren't yelling and getting into anyone's face, we're over here (to follow your metaphor) at the other end of the small town. You had to come over here to hear what we're saying, because we aren't yelling at anyone.
Here's another thing, she didn't come into town to buy feed, she came to get coffee and treats for herself. And no one is blaming her for trying to make money by selling things, we wish she would. She has claimed to sell things, took the money, but never delivered. She's down one her "luck" because she quit her job, and she refuses to work, so she comes around to panhandle from time to time, but the money doesn't go to feed her animals or pay her mortage. She spent $8000.00 on a pony. That's just one example. Some of the people down here have given her money or paid for products that never came.
It certainly is mean to imply that anyone is pushing her or kicking her while she's down. And it was a really nice touch to make the townsfolk sound like idiots who couldn't graduate 2nd grade. You don't know the whole story, but it was really nice of you to write a piece of fiction and pretend you do, and pretend you're the hero in town.
I had to read it to believe it, and all I can say is, wow who is the bully? It is just another blog I will not read.
DeleteI don't even know who OhioFarmGirl is or how she figures into anything--I had to google to figure out what you were referring to. Kind of weird. Guess she doesn't have the whole story herself.
DeleteIsn't it funny that such a mean piece of writing was done by someone claiming the others were the "mean girls." When did verbal discussion, satire or even plain, old venting become the equivilent of physical bullying or assault? Are we all so precious now that we think just saying something critical of someone's business operation is the same as kicking them to the ground and stomping on them? OhioFarmGirl has obviously never been actually bullied or, believe me (and I say this as someone who was seriously bullied in school), she'd know the difference. Apparently, some people are supposed to be beyond criticism and untouchable.
DeleteOhio farm girl is a bully. I know, because I was bullied as a kid and you never forget how bullies operate. Besides, pointing a finger at someone points three at yourself, did you know that OFG?
DeleteHmmm... wow. More farm fiction.
ReplyDelete1 - It read like CAF. The fake-folksy language.
ReplyDelete2 - I hope the publisher does know the whole, looonnngggg story or repeated "mistakes," despite good advice and better "contributions" rewarding titillating sob stories.
3 - She's not poor or weak. At least not poor enough to have to work, like most of us. And weak? She attacks, and allows others to attack those who disagree with her, and is maybe the greatest self-promoter around, these here parts (folksy term intentionally included)
4 - If others want to hitch to her wagon - if they feel that CAF is an operation worth defending and associating with as a farmer - that's their choice and their values. But you know, ol' Shep used to share this piece of advice... "Son, be careful, cause when you lay down with dogs, you might just wake up with fleas."
Where did you all read this bully post?
ReplyDeleteOhiofarmgirl's blog.
DeleteHere it is:
Deletehttp://adventuresinthegoodland.blogspot.com/
Enjoy! It's equal parts idiotic and hilarious.
What!? again...seriously?
DeleteJon did it again (even though I don't like you Jon, you do speak the truth when you refer to Jenna):
ReplyDelete"Hubris is a close cousin of anger and panic. If you meet someone who lives in constant fear, I have found (myself surely included), there is voften, in fact, a loss of perspective, a denial of reality. What? The rules of the world apply to me? I have to pay for what I buy? The forces of the world are just waiting out there to rescue me and save me and show me again and again that I am better than most people, more wondrous and deserving? All I need to do is think positive thoughts and charge ahead."
Yep, you said it Jon!
Jon's right, and sadly, that point of view was sold to young people in colleges and schools when Jenna was going to school. It was also sold by a lot of people on television, on Oprah and shows like hers.
DeleteBefore I was retired, we had to attend seminars every year or two to sell us on ideas like that, and we could be criticized by our bosses if we didn't buy into it. I always knew it was a false happiness, and that seminar leaders didn't necessarily know how to run a business or operate successfully in the real world. I was recently listening to NPR and heard about a study of depressed patients, they studied their grip on reality, and found out that it was actually better than people who are always happy. Even the mental health industry has pushed this false happiness. Now they are trying to find a way to help people who are depressed without breaking their ties to reality. It turns out that depression can be a great motivator in changing your life and fixing your mistakes.
I read the OFG blog post and it raised more questions than answers in my mind.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the difference between bullying and venting? It seems to me bullying would be posting the comments on the person’s website and venting would be posting comments on a different website. But I could be wrong.
Why do I come here and why do I go there? I honestly don’t know. I had my own disappointment with CAF and said my piece. I really do have better things to do. I wish I knew how to quit you both!
I think OFG was comparing this discussion with the story of Jesus and the crowd who wanted to stone the prostitute. He pointed out their flaws and they went away. It is true, we are all flawed, and believe me, I thought about that when I wrote my own post. Yet, I felt I needed to express my opinion about some questionable activities. What is the difference between stoning and venting?
Maybe I come here for the discussion. Or to see how things will play out. If you see something, should you say something, or is that bullying? Where is the line? That is what I want to know. Where is the line?
Jon Katz's piece was absolutely brilliant. I was going to say that this condition seems to especially affect those who are about 30 years of age, as I know many young people that age who seem to be having trouble figuring out how to support themselves without help, pay their own way and realize that your wonderfulness does not mean the world owes you a living. But Katz is my age, and the comments about Hubris can be applied to many people of ALL ages. That is probably my favorite piece of his writing; he was just so on-target.
ReplyDeleteI only read a few paragraphs of OFG's post - congrats on getting all the hits on your blog!
ReplyDeleteAnyways, I stopped reading because I did not identify with it. I DO want Jenna to make money. I do want to see her straighten her back, stand on her own two feet, and do something other than begging for money.
Yes, we do get snarky and giggly, imagining Jenna riding Merlin with Italics perched on her arm, as some reader does all the work for her as part of a haycation. That's blowing off some steam, as we watch someone who proclaims to be hardworking and independent call in helper after helper.